LT/RT - Seperate mix or down-mix?

[Johnny2Laps]

As I am doing more 5.1 mixes for TV, I am coming across more clients that don't fully grasp the delivery requirements. I've always done my 5.1 mix first and then opened that in an LCRS template and adjusted as needed so that the LT/RT sounds good. Recently I've come across a couple of clients that didn't want to bother with all that, and were fine with using Circle Surround to whip out a quick LT/RT. They passed QC . What are you guys experiencing?

[funkcity]

The big promise for TV was the new 5.1 mix.

The real disappointment for TV is the time/budget crunch.

You can only monitor one format. Maybe the LR is the most important, maybe the Dolby PL or PL2 or 5.1.

But they NEVER give you the time to optimize or even do a monitor pass in the other deliverable format! And downmxing sucks big time!

[hef]

As I am doing more 5.1 mixes for TV, I am coming across more clients that don't fully grasp the delivery requirements. I've always done my 5.1 mix first and then opened that in an LCRS template and adjusted as needed so that the LT/RT sounds good. Recently I've come across a couple of clients that didn't want to bother with all that, and were fine with using Circle Surround to whip out a quick LT/RT. They passed QC . What are you guys experiencing?

I'm wondering the same thing. Here's my latest experience. I just did an ESPN mix who only air an LtRt. Because I know many people will hear this LtRt in stereo not thru a decoder I monitored back and forth between stereo and LCRS. When you make your LtRt sound good are you leaning towards stereo or LCRS or treating them equally???

[dr sound]

First off the best thing you could do is get rid of the "Circle Surround". There are way more artifacts with it.
If you have your 5.1 listen through your LT/RT and tweak as needed. Once you learn the compromise that it makes
you learn to tweak it.

[tomlowd]

i disagreee. i use circle surround and find it has much more "pleasant" artifacts than using a dolby convertor or other plugins.... the way it encodes the surrounds into the stereo is much more natural and interesting in my opinion.

[dr sound]

Tom,
As one of the original "Beta testers' for the Circle Surround plug in I can say it is much better than it use to be.
However, when you spent as much time as I and "The Pirate" in shoot outs etc with it I can say I don't use it at all.
I am happy that it works for you. The trade off are too great for me.

[Johnny2Laps]

I'm getting the feeling I'm not the only one in this boat. As an example, in my last experience with this kind of situation, when the network folk came over to listen with my client, they only wanted to hear the 5.1 downmixed (Tascam DSM 7.1) on the small speakers. I didn't argue as they are in charge, right? Later I explained things to my client, but they didn't seem overly concerned since the network folk had approved the mixes. The mixes were fairly simple, so the translation between formats was okay, but sheesh. I guess it's up to me to spend some time on my dime checking that the various mixes are acceptable, and then decide how much time I'm willing to invest to fix anything that needs fixing. Do I get a producer fee?

[tomlowd]

Tom,
As one of the original "Beta testers' for the Circle Surround plug in I can say it is much better than it use to be.
However, when you spent as much time as I and "The Pirate" in shoot outs etc with it I can say I don't use it at all.
I am happy that it works for you. The trade off are too great for me.

cool! what did you test it against and what did you come up with as the best 5.1 to LtRt encoder? to be honest all i've had access to is the dolby SUE4 surround encoder, the waves 360 and the SRS...

i was stuck mixing for a year with the old dolby surround unit and just hated it so much that circle surround was a godsend. i'd be interested to hear the results of your "shoot out."