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  #371  
Old 10-23-2011, 04:01 PM
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psmworld psmworld is offline
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Default Re: Protools 10HD upgrade to from 9 is 999.99 ..... WHY

and you really think that changes anything?!
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  #372  
Old 10-23-2011, 04:16 PM
Capta¡nHook Capta¡nHook is offline
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Default Re: Protools 10HD upgrade to from 9 is 999.99 ..... WHY

Here's what Max thinks:

Quote:
If you think the HDX System is overpriced, then I suggest you don't buy it. There are many other ways to use Pro Tools, including just using the software by itself. You have a great deal of choices.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I will not apologize for how great I think the HDX System with Pro Tools HD 10 is. Some of the smartest, most dedicated people in the world poured their hearts and souls into this, working insane hours and sacrificing so much of their personal lives to make this happen. HDX is certainly not for everyone, but I do not for one second believe it is over priced. If you do, I completely respect your opinion, appreciate your feedback, and hope you can find another solution that meets your needs.
So there you go. Anyone else thinking about other solutions too?
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  #373  
Old 10-23-2011, 04:19 PM
brickroadstudio brickroadstudio is offline
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Default Re: Protools 10HD upgrade to from 9 is 999.99 ..... WHY

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Originally Posted by losttimestudios View Post
Wait. I have Pro Tools HD9 -- you mean I have to pay a grand for a software update? That is blanking outrageous. AVID -- I know your stock price has tanked but you shouldn't be looking to fleece your loyal customers. As a matter of principle I would not upgrade. AVID -- go jump in a river.
+1 again
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  #374  
Old 10-23-2011, 04:24 PM
Max Gutnik Max Gutnik is offline
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Default Re: Protools 10HD upgrade to from 9 is 999.99 ..... WHY

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Originally Posted by Capta¡nHook View Post
Here's what Max thinks:



So there you go. Anyone else thinking about other solutions too?
It's why we make other ways to work with Pro Tools, Cap'n. I also mentioned that a week ago, an HD3 bundle with an HD OMNI was $14995. Now a more powerful HDX OMNI system with Pro Tools HD 10 is $9999. If you exchange your HD3 with a 192, you get that $9999 HDX OMNI system for $5999. By the way, as someone said earlier, you can always sell your current gear yourself if you think you can do better on the used market. Exchanges are not required, right? Perhaps you could recoup the $9999 off ebay and by the new system outright.

Either way, everyone has the absolute right to decide if a Pro Tools HDX System is right for them.
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  #375  
Old 10-23-2011, 04:31 PM
ggegan ggegan is offline
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Default Re: Protools 10HD upgrade to from 9 is 999.99 ..... WHY

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Originally Posted by Max Gutnik View Post
Prices will vary according to the size of the system being exchanged
Max,

But what about those of us who have tens of thousands of dollars invested in expanded systems? The trade-ins stop at HD3, I have a PCIe HD6 system. Those PCIe cards and the expansion chassis only came out 3 years ago. So now I'm supposed to trade in 3 cards and then I'm stuck with 3 useless cards and an expansion chassis? I realize that Avid has a bottom line, but so do I. I can't afford to just write off over $12,000 of leftover gear that is only 3 years old.
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  #376  
Old 10-23-2011, 04:33 PM
brickroadstudio brickroadstudio is offline
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Default Re: Protools 10HD upgrade to from 9 is 999.99 ..... WHY

**sigh**
How about, Max, you think about the fact that the software only is $999.00
I purchased an HD3 system 3 years ago for $12,000. This year, I upgraded from 7.3 to 9 and went Native HD. That card cost me $2500.
Here I am 5 months later, and I need ANOTHER grand to just stay current on software?

Your pricing for new systems or trade ins is one thing. But the fact is, I dont need hardware- my 192's work just fine. My 12 core mac with 16 gigs of ram can handle all the plug ins my heart desires for mixing. I can still track and mix a bangin' record just fine-- I do however, like to keep my studio current. Clients like to see that I have the latest version of pro tools. They dont give a crap what PCIe cards are in the computer--

I think you can start by making the SOFTWARE upgrade reasonable for HD users--that might then make me not so pissed off that in a year, two or three I will be willing to invest in new cards. SOFTWARE- which we can download is of no cost to you per unit-- so think about how much more you will sell by lowering the price to something reasonable...
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  #377  
Old 10-23-2011, 04:40 PM
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psmworld psmworld is offline
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Default Re: Protools 10HD upgrade to from 9 is 999.99 ..... WHY

max, there's just one single reason to upgrade (and wait) for hdx: when you need the power.

well, most audio professionals have at least an hd3. this equals to an hdx as you say.

avid cant be that blind to not see the nonsense on upgrading an hd3 to hdx right now. it's not even available and i guess it's not till january or later.

why should we do an upgrade plus not be able to use hd10 till we receive the cards?

it's a double loss. not usable for weeks and getting the basicly same performance except delay comp and mixer depth.

no matter how often you talk about the value, it's nonsense for existing users.

it's a great price for new customers compared to hd accel. but we need a solution to buy in the software cheap and get the hdx when it's available, 64bit, offline bounced, track freezed, or any other reason why NEEDED.

PS: disk cache is no deal for me. i'm fully on ssd's. it's super fast and can be had much cheaper than the upgrade.
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  #378  
Old 10-23-2011, 04:47 PM
Dism Dism is offline
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Default Re: Protools 10HD upgrade to from 9 is 999.99 ..... WHY

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Gutnik View Post
It's why we make other ways to work with Pro Tools, Cap'n. I also mentioned that a week ago, an HD3 bundle with an HD OMNI was $14995. Now a more powerful HDX OMNI system with Pro Tools HD 10 is $9999. If you exchange your HD3 with a 192, you get that $9999 HDX OMNI system for $5999. By the way, as someone said earlier, you can always sell your current gear yourself if you think you can do better on the used market. Exchanges are not required, right? Perhaps you could recoup the $9999 off ebay and by the new system outright.

Either way, everyone has the absolute right to decide if a Pro Tools HDX System is right for them.
Max, if I may...

I don't think people are necessarily arguing the fact that HDX is a lot more powerful than its predecessor, nor that the pricing structure for HDX is particularly unfair. It's not really any different than previous pricing structures, and upgrade paths.

What people are most angry about is the price of the HD upgrade. $1000 is steep, no matter how you look at it. Especially if you invested in a new TDM system in the past year, and especially since TDM can't take advantage of AAX DSP, the 16k ADC or the new mix engine. Imagine if you had invested in an HD3 system in september. Even used, we're talking at least $6000 with cards, cables, I/Os, etc. To expect them to pay $1000 to upgrade to a Pro Tools that will be the last version they can even use with this system, and doesn't even allow them to take full advantage of the new features... is unfair. Most users like that also won't even consider spending another $6-7000 just to keep up with the times.

For HD Native users... yes, it's still a pricey upgrade, but at least they get all the new features, and don't have to worry about obsolescence.

I understand it may also be a price point to drive TDM users to trade in their old hardware for a new HDX... but for a lot of people TDM is all they need right now. If you wanted TDM users to still buy PT10, it would have made more sense to give them at least a software discount since they can't use some of the feature. AAX is obviously still very new and scary, and we aren't going to see mass adoptation from the userbase until they are confident that it works as advertised. If you want to reassure TDM users, give them a taste. Give them a blanket. They're feeling left in the cold right now, and they could use some hot cocoa in the form of, perhaps a $200 discount.
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  #379  
Old 10-23-2011, 04:50 PM
danander11 danander11 is offline
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Default Re: Protools 10HD upgrade to from 9 is 999.99 ..... WHY

Max, I've asked on GS so now I'll ask here...

You continue to go on about the soft/hardware exchange being a great deal, (and from my perspective it is a good deal at least.. in general), but you've said nothing that addresses the extreme cost of upgrading the HD software only.

A lot of us cannot buy it all at once and do thing incrementally.. It's a tight economy. Not to discount the blood, sweat and tears that were poured out in making PT10 and HDX, that's an emotional argument and carries little marketplace weight.. You ask us to understand your position for your pricing, please understand ours.. We simply cannot go all at once. You have a chance to build some loyalty here but we feel that you are thumbing your nose at us..

Clarification on this one point would be nice, after all, it's the title of the thread..

Thanks.
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  #380  
Old 10-23-2011, 04:52 PM
tripit tripit is offline
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Default Re: Protools 10HD upgrade to from 9 is 999.99 ..... WHY

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Gutnik View Post
Hi H, Good to see you.

I've got to respectfully disagree here. To get the power of HDX, the sound quality of the HD series I/O (if you choose to exchange your I/O) and all the speed and efficiency of Pro Tools HD 10 for around 1/3 of what a similarly powered HD TDM system would have cost a few days ago is a great value.
Max, respectfully, I think you are looking at this all wrong. It's not so much about the values of HDX, it's the software upgrade costs that has most up in arms.

Had Avid come out with something reasonable, then I would upgrade and maybe consider exchanging my hardware down the line. Right now though, I'm just looking at that $1500 price tag for software jump or eight grand for my HD2 + 192 set up. Way to show your HD customers, many who carried this company for the last decade, that you care. Right now, I think most of them will tell Avid to stuff it.

You want to keep your HD customers right?

Maybe you and Avid should look at Netflix's recent blunder. You piss off your HD customer base and they will leave you, no matter how great or fair you think you are being. Take that bit of advise to the bean counters.
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