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  #1  
Old 05-08-2009, 02:31 PM
krad krad is offline
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Default Elastic time Killing transients on Overheads

Is anyone else have trouble with elastic time effecting the transients on overhead and room mics when pertaining to drums?

I have tried every algorithm there available.
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  #2  
Old 05-08-2009, 08:38 PM
albee1952 albee1952 is offline
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Default Re: Elastic time Killing transients on Overheads

How far are you trying to move your warp markers? Its been fine for me as long as I don't stretch things too far. You could try dropping a marker just after the initial attack so you don't stretch that part of the wave. You might also duplicate playlist so you still have the original audio available just in case. Are you grouping your tracks to maintain phase?
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  #3  
Old 05-09-2009, 01:41 PM
krad krad is offline
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Default Re: Elastic time Killing transients on Overheads

I am just quantizing and it is never very far off. I group them all after I set my warp markers on the kick snare and toms, and turn the sensitivity down on the rest. Its really odd though. There are no artifacts if i choose X-form but any distant mic seems to loose the transient and what i hear (pardon me for typing non technically) is a ffffwooop instead of the transient. I dont know if that makes any sense and I doubt a lot of people would notice but it drives me nuts
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  #4  
Old 05-10-2009, 03:13 AM
Capta¡nHook Capta¡nHook is offline
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Default Re: Elastic time Killing transients on Overheads

Quote:
Originally Posted by krad View Post
I group them all after I set my warp markers on the kick snare and toms, and turn the sensitivity down on the rest.
I could never get that workflow to work for me. Similar probs to you. I just
analyze all the drum tracks together and go through and remove/add/move
warp markers for all tracks.
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  #5  
Old 05-12-2009, 08:38 AM
krad krad is offline
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Default Re: Elastic time Killing transients on Overheads

so captain... Do you just delete the analyzed markers on the OH, Rooms, ECT or fix those as well...
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  #6  
Old 05-12-2009, 11:42 PM
Stiff Stiff is offline
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Default Re: Elastic time Killing transients on Overheads

Avoiding the source of the problem (can't be a good thing, right? ), you could play with a transient designer. Flux has one for free (Bittersweet II) if you don't want to shell out for the SPL.
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  #7  
Old 05-13-2009, 09:57 AM
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DigiTechSupt DigiTechSupt is offline
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Default Re: Elastic time Killing transients on Overheads

Quote:
I am just quantizing and it is never very far off. I group them all after I set my warp markers on the kick snare and toms, and turn the sensitivity down on the rest
That's the problem - if you turn down the sensitivity, you're removing analysis markers, which are needed for accuracy.

If you're working with multitracked drums, the method should be:

1. Group all tracks
2. Analyze
3. Remove any false analysis markers
4. Select the Group and quantize

Note - make sure that you have event markers at the beginning and end of any section you're quantizing, so that quantize only affects the area between those markers.

This will keep the relative positioning of all tracks consistent and avoid phase anomalies and other issues.

What's happening if you remove too many analysis markers is that the EA engine has only the reference points between those markers to work with and it will stretch or compress everything between them the same. By keeping the markers at the transients, the EA engine will know that it should compress/expand the areas around it, but keeps the transient intact.
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  #8  
Old 05-13-2009, 10:13 AM
audiogeekzine audiogeekzine is offline
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Default Re: Elastic time Killing transients on Overheads

In my experience (running http://beatfixx.com for half a year) Elastic audio just does NOT work on certain things. I had one band send me tracks and activating EA was just glitch city. No matter what the setting, algorithm, lowering sensitivity or ANYTHING it just sounded terrible. That was BEFORE moving any hitpoints! The songs were ~220bpm, constant 16th notes or triplets.

I stick with Beat Detective now. Before that I would have sworn up and down that EA was better/faster/sounded just as good.

Good luck.
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  #9  
Old 05-21-2009, 05:16 AM
Mediterraneo Mediterraneo is offline
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Default Re: Elastic time Killing transients on Overheads

There is a room for two simple improvements in the EA workflow for which can save us lot of time when used on multitrack drums. I have PT 7.4cs9 with 003 rack. My work flow is as follows:

1. Group the tracks
2. Group the region
3. Analyze with Rhythmic plugin
4. Remove false markers
5. Select, quantize on 1/1 strenght
6. Listen to the result, edit warp markers and their positions realtime (this is why I cannot use xform in this phase)
7. Select, quantize on 1/8 or 1/16 strenght depending on material
8. Listen to the result, edit warp markers and their positions
9. Change plugin to xform and wait for rendering
10. Disable EA xform plugin and commit EA

First improvement can be to explain somehow to EA that is just the bass drum which I want to quantize on every first beat on the bar. Problem is that when the drummer is sloppy EA starts to quantize some other transients on the first beat, and I have to quantize manually sometimes more then half of the song.

It shouldn't be complicated to have an option to tell EA that only bass drum (or snare drum) should be quantized on first bar. Digi, you said that lowering the sensitivity on other tracks doesn't work as I noticed when I tried to do that. Same problem is when I want to do EA on the acoustic guitar which is recorded on two tracks, one with piezo pickup, and another with the microphone. Piezo has much clearer transients and EA is working much better, but the microphone channel is what I want in my mix. I want somehow to tell EA that piezo track is master and all quantizing should just be copied to microphone track.

Second problem is when I want to change EA plugin to xform. Why I sholud render twice same thing, once when I change plugin, and second time when I want to remove EA so I can transfer the session to my 7.3 HD system? It should be easy to put in the revert-cancel-commit dialogue box option "change plugin and commit", so rendering time is halved.

Last question is why rendering xform plugin uses maximum 55% of my dualcore intel processor on Toshiba Satellite Pro notebook?
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  #10  
Old 05-21-2009, 10:17 AM
audiogeekzine audiogeekzine is offline
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Default Re: Elastic time Killing transients on Overheads

x-form is far too slow even on my quadcore pc to be of any use, I don't bother with it.

I do like EA on things like Djembe and percussion parts. This week I did a bunch of recording with small children and EA saved the day.
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