11R and Apollo / Apogee

[mrgroovy]

Currently am running PT 10 with the 11 Rack as my only interface. After performing an exhaustive study of the old AD/DA conversion discussion, I was wondering if anyone has had experience upgrading to a higher end interface like the Apollo Quad or Apogee Quartet to avoid the use of the 11R as your main interface. I am not concerned so much about the increase in the quality of the mic pres which I know will be a real improvement. My main question is, would paying up for an Apollo or Apogee (for starters) allow the mic, amp and cab simulations in the 11Rack to shine through more than my current setup. In other words, does using the 11R as my sole interface, and thus using the 11R converters, hinder me in any way from getting the full potential out of the 11R rigs?
The whole conversion thing is confusing but I really need to know if I am handicapping myself and my guitar tones.

[nst7]

If you want to upgrade, you need to get an interface that is not only higher quality, but specifically has a digital Spidf input and output. This will allow you to completely bypass the 11R's conversion.

For that reason, the Apogee Quartet would NOT work, because it doesn't have that.

The Apollos would work (only the higher models, not the Twins).

I have not used the Apollos so I don't know how much improvement they would be in terms of conversion.

I'm guessing for it to be really worth your while and noticeable, you would want to upgrade to something like the new Apogee Ensemble Thunderbolt interface. Not only would it be noticeably better conversion, but it also has excellently designed instrument DI's that are very good, based on reviews that I've seen. The Ensemble also has the digital I/O that you would need for this. Plus the mic preamps would be of very good quality also. And you would have more inputs and outputs should you need them.

[mrgroovy]

Originally Posted by nst7

If you want to upgrade, you need to get an interface that is not only higher quality, but specifically has a digital Spidf input and output. This will allow you to completely bypass the 11R's conversion.

For that reason, the Apogee Quartet would NOT work, because it doesn't have that.

The Apollos would work (only the higher models, not the Twins).

I have not used the Apollos so I don't know how much improvement they would be in terms of conversion.

I'm guessing for it to be really worth your while and noticeable, you would want to upgrade to something like the new Apogee Ensemble Thunderbolt interface. Not only would it be noticeably better conversion, but it also has excellently designed instrument DI's that are very good, based on reviews that I've seen. The Ensemble also has the digital I/O that you would need for this. Plus the mic preamps would be of very good quality also. And you would have more inputs and outputs should you need them.

Thx NST - Have you had any experience with the Focusrite Sapphire Pro 40? That is SPDIF. Alot less expensive thatn the Apogee. Thx

[DonaldR]

For recording guitar tracks, you won't gain anything as the ADC is after the guitar input. Sure you can use another interface with DI input and go spdif to 11R but you will loose the True Z input which I think is why 11R sounds so good and responsive.

So record guitar (and bass) tracks with 11R and other tracks with a high-end interface and high-end preamps. Avid MBox Pro got really good reviews if you don't want to spend too much money on AD/DA converters. Maybe Focusrite (ISA One and ISA 428)? Good mic pres with good ADC.

[nst7]

Originally Posted by mrgroovy

Thx NST - Have you had any experience with the Focusrite Sapphire Pro 40? That is SPDIF. Alot less expensive thatn the Apogee. Thx

I haven't gotten to really hear the Focusrite stuff, but a lot of people feel that it's noticeably better then the 003. In my experience, the 003 was a little better than the 11R (which isn't saying much). Therefore the Focusrite stuff should be better by quite a bit.

However, when it comes to conversion, it's the type of thing that can be very subtle, and you may notice it more when you've done many tracks with the better conversion.

A lot of people like the Saffire units, and they may be handy to have just to give you more inputs/outputs and flexibility.

You also might look into their new Thunderbolt Clarett range that's just now shipping. It's a newer design so they may sound even better than the Saffires, and they're not that much more expensive. There's the 8 Pre for $999, and the 8 Pre-X for $1299. I believe they are the same, only the 8 Pre-X adds an extra set of Adat I/O for more expandability. Note that you will of course need a Mac with Thunderbolt (I don't yet know if it's compatible with Windows).

As for what Donald mentioned about the True-Z input on the 11R, I have a different opinion, in that I don't think it's that special at all. When the 11R first came out, a lot of people were coming from the 002/003 DI's, which were pretty terrible, so it was an improvement over those. But even if you use the 11R you will notice a difference going through a good DI and mic pre into the line ins, vs. the True-Z input. Add better conversion by going through a better interface, and you will see even more difference.