How to change tempo for a music cue without affecting timing after it?

[ergalthema]

I write music for short films. They're usually around 10 to 25 minutes long. I usually don't use the tempo grid for this reason: If I want to change the tempo of a cue in the middle, it shifts everything that follows. If I really need something to be on a grid, like electronica, I'll do it in another project. But that takes a lot more time because every time I need to make a change, I have to open that project, bounce the audio, and replace it in the 'main' project.

Does that make sense? Seems like what I want to do would be common.

I found this thread, but it doesn't seem to have a reliable answer: http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=321281&page=2

What I'd really like would be, for example: this cue is 00:03:28:04-00:04:53:23. Anything I do inside that time will not affect anything outside it, ever.

[minister]

switch all tracks from ticks to samples.

[ergalthema]

Originally Posted by minister

switch all tracks from ticks to samples.

I don't think that accomplishes what I'm asking. I have a bunch of MIDI data, and I want to change the tempo of some of it in the middle of the project, but leave everything before and after the section where it is.

[reichman]

The only program I've seen that can handle this elegantly is Digital Performer using "chunks." In Pro Tools and Logic, you have to insert an "elbow" into your tempo ruler. So for example, cue 1 is okay, cue 2 needs a tempo change, and cue 3 is okay. Here's what I would do:

-Put a marker based on absolute time (timecode) at the exact start of cue 3, probably first downbeat.

-Put a tempo change at the exact start of cue 3, maintaining the right tempo for cue 3.

-Insert a tempo change 8 bars or so before cue 3 in musical silence, but don't change the tempo yet. This is your elbow!

-Change the tempo of cue 2 until your happy. This results in the start location of cue 3 being thrown off...

-Adjust the tempo of the elbow until the downbeat of cue 3 exactly aligns with the absolute timecode marker. This might result in a very weird tempo. Ignore that, this is musical silence.

Make sense? The elbow is a shrinkable/expandable margin of musical time that moves cue 3 into the right timecode position.

[diamondschwin]

Originally Posted by reichman

The only program I've seen that can handle this elegantly is Digital Performer using "chunks." In Pro Tools and Logic, you have to insert an "elbow" into your tempo ruler. So for example, cue 1 is okay, cue 2 needs a tempo change, and cue 3 is okay. Here's what I would do:

-Put a marker based on absolute time (timecode) at the exact start of cue 3, probably first downbeat.

-Put a tempo change at the exact start of cue 3, maintaining the right tempo for cue 3.

-Insert a tempo change 8 bars or so before cue 3 in musical silence, but don't change the tempo yet. This is your elbow!

-Change the tempo of cue 2 until your happy. This results in the start location of cue 3 being thrown off...

-Adjust the tempo of the elbow until the downbeat of cue 3 exactly aligns with the absolute timecode marker. This might result in a very weird tempo. Ignore that, this is musical silence.

Make sense? The elbow is a shrinkable/expandable margin of musical time that moves cue 3 into the right timecode position.

This is the way I have done it before. easier if the cues are not bleeding from one into the next then separate sessions is better

[ergalthema]

Wow, ok. I guess I can't really do what I want. The 'elbow' method is a decent workaround, but it would still be better for me to use a separate project.

[minister]

Originally Posted by ergalthema

I don't think that accomplishes what I'm asking. I have a bunch of MIDI data, and I want to change the tempo of some of it in the middle of the project, but leave everything before and after the section where it is.

Create more Midi tracks. The ones you want to leave where they are change to samples; the ones you want to change the tempo of leave in ticks.

when scoring long shorts and features, I often use one session per cue with everything in sync with the master timeline. I guess that is a workaround, but, it often can be easier and helps when you change instrumentation radically.

[ergalthema]

Originally Posted by minister

Create more Midi tracks. The ones you want to leave where they are change to samples; the ones you want to change the tempo of leave in ticks.

Thanks, I have used this technique when necessary.

Originally Posted by minister

when scoring long shorts and features, I often use one session per cue with everything in sync with the master timeline.

I'm curious to know more about this. I'm not sure exactly what you mean about "everything in sync with the master timeline" - just that the same complete video file is used in each separate session? Is that so each session can be bounced to a track, and then the bounce tracks from each session can be imported into a master/dub session?

[minister]

Originally Posted by ergalthema

I'm not sure exactly what you mean about "everything in sync with the master timeline" - just that the same complete video file is used in each separate session? Is that so each session can be bounced to a track, and then the bounce tracks from each session can be imported into a master/dub session?

That's pretty much it. You can easily adjust the start time of a cue such that a specific Timecode lands on the downbeat of your 1 or 2nd measure and it doesn't mess anything up. Sometimes I set it as the 2nd measure so I can have a count-off at the right tempo. Works the same for setting the TC location as a pickup, or whatever you need.

Then I pull the stems or mix into a Master Assembly session.

It's one way to work.