Sound Design Copyright

[Grey]

Is sound design covered by copyrights?

if so what form should I use to copyright sound design?

[Postman]

HA!

Music is considered copyrightable work. Maybe you could call your sound track a composition and attempt to protect it that way, but I doubt it would hold up in court. AFAIK there is no legal precedent and probably no legal definition to allow a court case to go forward (assuming you could afford to do so.)

This touches a point that I've always been sensitive to. Sound post production by tradition is not considered a creative contribution, merely a technical contribution. I cannot disagree more! It goes back to when recording studios were staffed by people in white lab coats.

[subwoof]

Interesting question. I don't think it's a practical idea. Generally if you do sound design you are being paid by someone to do it for a production of some kind. In that case, the person paying you would own the sounds you make as intellectual property, unless you have a contract with them stating otherwise.

Most sound designers use bits and pieces of their own material plus bits and pieces of library material to make their sounds. How can you copyright other people's material that you've used and altered to make your own sounds, unless every single sound you use is one you've recorded on your own time and with your own gear.

For instance, I created Sound Ideas disc #6039 many years ago from material I recorded for various shows. I hear some of that material and other material I made for the 6000 series in numerous films and TV shows. Sometimes it's just a piece of something incorporated into other material, but since it's mine I recognize it. Now that person who used a bit of material from CD 6039 as a component in his new sound design can't really claim copyright on that, because he used other people's work to accomplish what he did. Besides, if someone takes an existing sound from a library and slows it down or alters it, is that considered a "NEW" copyrightable sound? I wouldn't want to go there in a legal sense.

In my opinion, once a sound is out there and available to others, it becomes part of the great heap of universal matter that is available to beg, borrow or steal for the brotherhood of sound designers. If you don't want other's to use your stuff, then be careful what you let out. Ultimately we are only bound by our own sense of what's right and wrong if we come across a sound that is not ours and use it.

After all, how many royalties would Wilhelm's posterity be entitled to if it were otherwise?

[Postman]

A Symphonic composition is copyrightable regardless of the musicians that play it. (There are performance rights that cover them when the work is recorded.)

I can see an argument where a "composition of sound elements" could be considered a copyrightable work, regardless of which particular arrow whoosh or servo sound is used. But, it would be a miserable legal battle to fight.

[Grey]

Sound Design is completely creative, if you in fact create the fx, and not use library fx. Which is why I pose the question.

Intersting, I also worked on a 20 disc set for Hollywood Edge "HPX Digital"
And was paid as a "content provider"
I wonder what Star Wars, Avatar, and others would sound like without sound design.

[Postman]

Well, are YOU creating the effects? What about the designers of the synthesizers and processing tools you used? Surely they are contributing just as much as you to the final product, in a sense! How many of your sounds started out as real world recordings? When did they become "original"? Does Harley Davidson own rights to every recording of a Harley bike?

It is a very difficult discussion to maintain on either side. That is why I think there is no copyright form you can use.

[Rick Sanchez]

You can copywrite it as a sound recording if you put it out on a CD / DVD. At that point you can sell the CD and write a license for others who have purchased the CD to use the sounds.

If you are hired by a client to do sound design for them, generally they own the finished content.

This is where it gets murky. Since you probably licensed a lot of the sound effects (CD libraries) that were used in the project, they can not then take the FX stems cut them up and resell them unless they are absolutely sure that sound was created specifically for that project. How would they know?

You often see things like the Apocalypse Now sound library. Those sounds were recorded specifically for that film and I'm sure are licensed by Zoetrope to Hollywood Edge, who I'm sure either pays them a royalty or paid them a lump sum to market them.

[The Cargo Cult]

so if I "write" a film soundtrack using soft synth presets, loops out of reason and sample libraries I bought on CD 10 years ago I'm sure you'd agree that I have "composed" a work which is subject to all the rights music enjoys.

the copyright in the recording theoretically is mine but it's maybe a little more vague in this case.

and if you then compre this work to the sound design I did on the same film it's hard to draw a line and say why the slightly more musicky bit deserves 50 years of performance royalties and the slightly more atmospheric bit doesn't.

you can tell I have no idea what the answers are.
just chucking it out there...
justin

[jimlongo]

I have no idea either, except that for the most part we are in an industry that still operates on a lot of levels like it did when it was first established in the 1920s and 30s. Then add the compartmentalization that unionization added.

For a lot of us however the reality is a lot different than the studio model.

You're right that a lot of sound design borders on music composition . . . or maybe it's the other way around, but composers are treated as authors, while sound designers are considered craftsmen.

In most battles regarding power the change is pretty slow. You see a few very high profile sound designers getting credit (if not royalties. at least big rewards), but most of the time that isn't the case, except for the acknowledgement of peers.

you can tell I have no idea what the answers are.

[Rick Sanchez]

Originally Posted by maggot

so if I "write" a film soundtrack using soft synth presets, loops out of reason and sample libraries I bought on CD 10 years ago I'm sure you'd agree that I have "composed" a work which is subject to all the rights music enjoys.

If you can get hired as a composer or make a deal with your client that you get to copy write the sound effect design, more power to ya. Music is a bit different in that the general public will actually PAY to buy a film or television music soundtrack. Good luck selling someone other than another sound designer or a freak a CD of bings, boinks, bys and booms.

Like I said, if you want to do sound design on your own dime, make a library and license it, you can probably do well if you really know what you're doing with sound and are a hell of a marketer. If not, be glad that you have a job doing something that can be a lot of fun.