Conversion Quality on Bounce

[Sacred Spirit]

I presume this is to take into account the differences in a chorus modulation, tremlo or other FX parameters that vary with time and would mess up the phase erase test.

It is always a good idea to print these effects to a track so you can determine if it came out right. Good call

[love666]

it should also be stated that tweakhead and best refer to sample rate conversion only

[Kurtstudio]

Don't trust me, do the test yourself. Import Mixes from a traditional tweek head bounce to disk, then use the methoud I listed above, import them into a 44.1 sessions and A & B them. If you don't hear the difference then you don't and it won't mean anything anyway. There is a difference or maybe there isn't , the truth of the matter is this " which mix will sell more records that the other?" I only go by what mastering labs, and my regional Pro-Tools reps have suggested is the best way to bounce! None of them know what they are talking about. Hey I did the test myself and I do hear differences, rev tails, depth of field imaging , fades etc.. Whatever!!! Use Tweekhead, or don't!! I just thought the user conference was for help from professionsal who are using this gear everyday in real world situations, trying to help those whom could benifit from their experence, thus a great learning tool! Bottom line. Use tweekhead! Sorry I went off on you!! enjoy the tools you have!! B

[love666]

don't freak out, man. personally i don't bounce or cut files to track. but tweakhead and best refer to SAMPLE RATE CONVERSION only. incidentally, many people prefer "best". i think if you stay on this board you will find a lot of people willing to engage the issues. rock on.

[Kurtstudio]

Sorry, too much coffee in my drink!!

[mixboy bob]

Oh dear, exactly!

Actually, PT sucks. I mean, think about it. BTD is bad, the mix buss is all screwed up. The 192io's are clearly substandard! I don't know how I've ever managed to make a good sounding record!

Wow, it never ends. Use Tweakhead, then you don't have to wonder if you did your best. BTD DOES phase cancel with "what you were listening to," just remember that depending on your method, there may be a few samples of latency that need to be compensated for.

I still can't figure out why there are so many people using The Tools, yet they seem to hate it. I guess I'll never know. But for now, I'll be mixing ITB and BTD'ing like there's no tomorrow! All with Zero complaints from the labels, the artists, management, and most importantly - my kids.

peace, and happy record-making!

mixboy

[Tony Shepperd]

An internal 'record to track' and a bounce to disk will result in exactly the same file.

Wow, I don't know exactly who this particular Digi Tech Support is... but your wrong. Let's talk specifics:

Instead of routing all the tracks to output 1 and 2, route all of the outputs to bus 31 and 32 (including the master fader). Then assign a new stereo audio track with an input of 31 and 32, with an output of the analog out one and two (put this track in input mode to monitor your mix). Instead of bouncing to disc, record to disc. Because of the superior sonics of the internal structure of Pro Tools, it actually sounds better. There is a noticeable difference. In blind test, 4 of the Southern California Digireps I played files for all picked the record to disc as sounding superior. Now, to be fair, I am using Apogee Big Ben as my external clock.
You should be able to replicate these test in your own studio.

[Mt.Everest]

Wow, I don't know exactly who this particular Digi Tech Support is... but your wrong. Let's talk specifics:

Instead of routing all the tracks to output 1 and 2, route all of the outputs to bus 31 and 32 (including the master fader). Then assign a new stereo audio track with an input of 31 and 32, with an output of the analog out one and two (put this track in input mode to monitor your mix). Instead of bouncing to disc, record to disc. Because of the superior sonics of the internal structure of Pro Tools, it actually sounds better. There is a noticeable difference. In blind test, 4 of the Southern California Digireps I played files for all picked the record to disc as sounding superior. Now, to be fair, I am using Apogee Big Ben as my external clock.
You should be able to replicate these test in your own studio.

First off, you cant route a Master Fader to a bus.
Secondly, what is this 'internal superior sonics ' you speak of? You say lets talk specifics, but this is a very vague statement. Details please! Id love to hear about the superior sonics that get added to your audio when you route your final bus output to a new track, versus having it go straight to a buffer from which the BTD file is created.
Also, were these tests done blind you are speaking of? Have you tried the phase flip test? When bouncing, PT is playing back as it normally would, passing the final mixer output to a buffer from which a disk file is created. When recording to a stereo track internally, PT is playing back no different than when BTD. Id really love to know what is different 'internally' when you route your audio to two new tracks. Please enlighten.

MT

[Iain Graham]

Where are you guys saying there's a change in sound?

Do you mean any bounce to disc? Say I'm in a session @ 24/48 and I bounce to a split-stereo file staying at 24/48, do you find the sound is different if I print the mix to a stereo track within the session and compare it to the BTB file?

Or do you mean the sound change comes when you downsample? If I'm in the same session and I bounce to a 16/44.1 interleaved stereo file, I'll get a better sounding mix if I print the mix to a stereo track and then export it and apply the downsample then?

If it's the latter, why not just impot the bounced file and export it that way?

Or why not just create a simple mastering session with the client there. Put all the correct versions in the order they want. You can export the downsampled mixes from there and the mastering engineer gets an easy start. I do that anyway cos my mastering guy is my boss, so delivery is a case of handing over a DVD. And he's lazy.

Iain

P.S. I'm more than a bit sceptical, but I'm willing to be proven wrong

[Tony Shepperd]

First off, you cant route a Master Fader to a bus.

Are you sure you want to stand by that statement? Under your output master fader 1 and 2, select that and route it to Aux 31 and 32 and see what happens. If you need me to walk you through it, I would be happy to obliged you. As for the superior sonics the internal buss math of PT HD is not the same math and processing as it is for the A to D output on 1 and 2. I do this everyday of my life. Trust me. If you want to hear example of mixes I would be happy to provide them.