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  #11  
Old 12-12-2013, 02:02 AM
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chrisdee chrisdee is offline
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Default Re: Best AAX DSP reverb available?

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Originally Posted by RecRoom View Post
Is valhalla useful for post?
Hi.

I'm sorry but I don't work in post production so I couldn't really say.
But they have a free demo so you could try it out.
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  #12  
Old 12-12-2013, 04:37 PM
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MIKEROPHONICS MIKEROPHONICS is offline
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Default Re: Best AAX DSP reverb available?

I asked Michael about Exponential going DSP during the beta phase and the dsp is not powerful enough.
I use his verbs by choice and Revibe if I need the dsp power (it is automation bullet proof)
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  #13  
Old 12-12-2013, 04:53 PM
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Default Re: Best AAX DSP reverb available?

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Originally Posted by MIKEROPHONICS View Post
I asked Michael about Exponential going DSP during the beta phase and the dsp is not powerful enough.
I use his verbs by choice and Revibe if I need the dsp power (it is automation bullet proof)
Revibe seems to be the choice DSP verb, so...its decided I'll get that reverb tonight after my session. I find that my HDX 1 consumes much more CPU than my old TDM. Every single plugin I ran under TDM was native,and I seldom had 'running out of CPU, remove plugs". With my HDX, even running minimal native plugs, I constantly get 'running out of CPU". Does any one else see that PT HDX uses much more - I mean a lot more- CPU than PT TDM? What I don't understand is that my CPU meter says 12% and PT says "you just ran out of CPU remove plugs etc.etc." I try to ignore the message and click OK and continue to work but sometimes, I get these crazy, digital crackling on the speakers. At first I thought I had blown a tweeter but no, that was Pro-Tools making horrible digital noises when it runs out of CPU power.
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  #14  
Old 12-12-2013, 08:14 PM
The golfer The golfer is offline
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Default Re: Best AAX DSP reverb available?

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Does any one else see that PT HDX uses much more - I mean a lot more- CPU than PT TDM?
I have the complete opposite result.

I split an HDX2 into two HDX1 system. One based on a 8 core 2.26 Nehalem and another on a 6 core 3.33 Westmere.

I can run 20 instances of Altiverb with a Nehalem 8 core and my CPU is using around 20% CPU usage. On my Westmere 6 core 3.33, it's even better.

The only drawback is the 60 voices I loose using native plugins on aux tracks.

I would like Altiverb to support AAX DSP but I'm curious to know how many chips would be needed for 20 reverbs (10 x 5.1, 5 stereo and 5 mono reverbs).
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  #15  
Old 12-13-2013, 06:04 AM
garnoil garnoil is offline
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Default Re: Best AAX DSP reverb available?

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Originally Posted by The golfer View Post
I have the complete opposite result.

I split an HDX2 into two HDX1 system. One based on a 8 core 2.26 Nehalem and another on a 6 core 3.33 Westmere.

I can run 20 instances of Altiverb with a Nehalem 8 core and my CPU is using around 20% CPU usage. On my Westmere 6 core 3.33, it's even better.

The only drawback is the 60 voices I loose using native plugins on aux tracks.

I would like Altiverb to support AAX DSP but I'm curious to know how many chips would be needed for 20 reverbs (10 x 5.1, 5 stereo and 5 mono reverbs).

Yes, my CPU says 12% usage but then I get the 'running out of power message'. I'll send the log crashes to Avid, but it seems strange that the Avid systems usage reports low cpu activity and the problems happens. Under TDM I was using my CPU up to about 60% and it was fine, but now 12% and crashes?
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  #16  
Old 12-13-2013, 08:36 AM
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Exponential Audio Exponential Audio is offline
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Default Re: Best AAX DSP reverb available?

Hi guys,
There's an interesting situation that arises on PT11 when you mix native plugins with HDX--you get fewer plugins than you would on a fully-native system! This is because of the way ProTools sets up their dual-domain delay stuff. There are elaborate user workarounds to keep the plugins from going into the short latency queue, but they're a PITA. Theoretically it's possible to keep a plugin out of that queue and I've asked AVID for such hooks. But they haven't committed. It might be helpful if they heard from some users.

I believe that any native plugin is affected by this, but mine perhaps more so because of the larger memory requirements for a reverb. Oddly enough, it seems to have more to do with the simple fact of placing the plugin in the short delay domain, rather than the latency of the plugin itself (at 48K, my reverbs only have a 32-sample latency). I've experimented with buffer size in PT10, and the reverbs are hardly affected by that factor. There's just some odd business going on in PT11. I think that overall the dual-domain stuff is a big plus, but this is one of those places where it could be improved.

Michael
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  #17  
Old 12-13-2013, 11:19 AM
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Branko Branko is offline
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Default Re: Best AAX DSP reverb available?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RecRoom View Post
Is valhalla useful for post?
I tried Valhalla, and it sounds beautiful, but their automation system is useless for post.
I'm using Revibe as DSP and Phoenix as Native on my HDX system. I wish Phoenix was DSP, too.
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  #18  
Old 12-13-2013, 11:26 AM
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Default Re: Best AAX DSP reverb available?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exponential Audio View Post
Hi guys,
There's an interesting situation that arises on PT11 when you mix native plugins with HDX--you get fewer plugins than you would on a fully-native system! This is because of the way ProTools sets up their dual-domain delay stuff. There are elaborate user workarounds to keep the plugins from going into the short latency queue, but they're a PITA.
Bearing in mind all of the above, is there any possibility to compile the Phoenix for DSP, or there is a serious lack of resources on HDX cards?
I hate to constantly check the Video sync delay of my sessions, because the latency gets so big (and it directly depends on number of Native plug-ins and their position in the chain) that it affects visibly the sync.
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  #19  
Old 12-13-2013, 11:33 AM
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Mike496 Mike496 is offline
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Default Re: Best AAX DSP reverb available?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exponential Audio View Post
Hi guys,

There's an interesting situation that arises on PT11 when you mix native plugins with HDX--you get fewer plugins than you would on a fully-native system! This is because of the way ProTools sets up their dual-domain delay stuff. There are elaborate user workarounds to keep the plugins from going into the short latency queue, but they're a PITA. Theoretically it's possible to keep a plugin out of that queue and I've asked AVID for such hooks. But they haven't committed. It might be helpful if they heard from some users.



I believe that any native plugin is affected by this, but mine perhaps more so because of the larger memory requirements for a reverb. Oddly enough, it seems to have more to do with the simple fact of placing the plugin in the short delay domain, rather than the latency of the plugin itself (at 48K, my reverbs only have a 32-sample latency). I've experimented with buffer size in PT10, and the reverbs are hardly affected by that factor. There's just some odd business going on in PT11. I think that overall the dual-domain stuff is a big plus, but this is one of those places where it could be improved.



Michael

Hi Michael,

Would this adjustment to the ProTools coding and protocol allow for your verbs to be ported to AAX DSP?
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  #20  
Old 12-13-2013, 12:44 PM
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Exponential Audio Exponential Audio is offline
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Default Re: Best AAX DSP reverb available?

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Originally Posted by Mike496 View Post
Hi Michael,

Would this adjustment to the ProTools coding and protocol allow for your verbs to be ported to AAX DSP?
It's not a simple matter of recompiling. If that were the case, I'd have done it without being asked. But it's far from simple. A single chip would not run the surround reverb, so I'd have to rewrite the algorithm in such a way that it would be split across multiple chips. At 96K it would take twice as many chips as that. At 192, twice as many again (and I've got a tester working at 352.8). I've had to deal with an algorithm split over multiple chips (the 96K version of the 960L algs lived on 5 chips) and I'm not eager to deal with that monumental PITA again. Now this is different for something like a compressor which uses very little RAM. But the truth of the matter is that a generic processor like an i7, XEON or the upcoming E5 is much better equipped to handle a process like a reverb than any existing dedicated DSP chip I'm aware of. It's hard for me to see the return on investment of what could easily take a year.

It's much easier for me to continue to add value to my products when I'm not spending my time on the minutiae of aging DSP chips (I'm already looking into Atmos and Auro-3D). There's so much more to PT11 than just HDX, and I really believe in the continued potential of the platform. I do--I really do--understand the fears of some users when they're worried about latency buildup and processor unpredictability. At the same time, the latency of my reverbs is 32 samples at 48K. Even when you add in the time to your I/O device, it's still considerably lower that the predelay settings typically used with a reverb.

If it sounds like I'm dedicated to the native world, then that's probably true. I'll always keep an open mind, but I've seen more progress in desktop processors in the last 3 years than in the last 10 years of dedicated DSPs. And yes, I'll be buying the new 'trashcan' Mac Pro as soon as I can. I for one am really looking forward to seeing what it can do.

Edit: I'd absolutely love to see Avid come up with some sort of Thunderbolt controller that would allow Mac Pros to be used as DSP farms. Tons of power and PCIe speeds. What a system that could make!
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