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  #1  
Old 05-19-2005, 05:13 PM
Andy Hay Andy Hay is offline
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Default Further X-Curve discussion

So, I just got off the phone with a Dolby engineer. His suggestion was to go ahead and mix the DVD in a theatrical setting (with X-Curve monitoring) and to simply supply that information in the metadata accompanying the audio bit-stream on the DVD. In theory, the home theater decoder will make adjustments based on that metadata. Has anyone done this? Seems like a reasonable idea, assuming the decoding does a good job of interpreting the specs.

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-andy
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Old 05-19-2005, 05:25 PM
SBP SBP is offline
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Default Re: Further X-Curve discussion

Hay Andy,

Thats how I have worked it in the past. Also in the metaData is a film compression setting which its a good idea to turn off.

I like to encode the track as an AC3 file then decode it and AB the result against my original.

I'm not sure if the dialogue norm setting is getting used as Dolby intended mostly we leave this at -31.

Making the AC3 file is not rocket science use apac or soft encode. I don't know why but I have always had more pleasing results when I make the AC3 file rather than leaving it up to the DVD authoring house.


Cheers
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Old 05-19-2005, 06:08 PM
Andy Hay Andy Hay is offline
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Default Re: Further X-Curve discussion

OK.. thanks. I think I might rent one of those Dolby AC-3 encoder boxes, since they stamp TC into the stream aswell. Anyone have any experience with using such a box?

cheers
-andy
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Old 05-20-2005, 06:33 AM
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Default Re: Further X-Curve discussion

curious...why would you encode the DVD with an X-curve? it is for large room compensation; aren't most DVD's seen in "small" rooms? living room , bedroom. i used to have a large, live living room (1000 sq feet) but that is unusually large. i did a test on a mix with and without X-Curve imposed on my monitor path, seting up my room like a theater, and it was better without. when would the X-curve be useful for playback? in a "home theater"? isn't that still too small?

is it that you don't want to re-mix it? (curious question, not accusatory) wouldn't you want to optimize your cinema mix for home playback? (maybe you're doing that but stil;l usign the eXtended curve)

and, how would the decoder know how to turn it off?
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Old 05-20-2005, 09:46 AM
Andy Hay Andy Hay is offline
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Default Re: Further X-Curve discussion

Quote:
curious...why would you encode the DVD with an X-curve? it is for large room compensation; aren't most DVD's seen in "small" rooms? living room , bedroom. i used to have a large, live living room (1000 sq feet) but that is unusually large. i did a test on a mix with and without X-Curve imposed on my monitor path, seting up my room like a theater, and it was better without. when would the X-curve be useful for playback? in a "home theater"? isn't that still too small?

is it that you don't want to re-mix it? (curious question, not accusatory) wouldn't you want to optimize your cinema mix for home playback? (maybe you're doing that but stil;l usign the eXtended curve)

and, how would the decoder know how to turn it off?

All I am merely trying to understand is whether or not I should bring a set of near-fields in to my theatrical room to mix a DVD. I am not converting a theatrical movie mix to DVD - this is a DVD only project that is largely music. Dolby's suggestion seems a bit dubious to me which is why I threw the question out to you guys. The idea of having a decoder compensate for the monitoring in the mix environment seems questionable to me.

When making records, I use a very gentle roll-off (much gentler than X-Curve) and this has always served me well. I think the solution is to bring in some near-fields, apply a gentle roll-off and get on with it. The theatrical speakers are probably not the way to go for mixing a DVD.... which begs another question.... why is it that "big" TV shows are being mixed in theatrical rooms (which obviously employ the X-Curve) - seems like a less than ideal monitoring environment for mixing TV.
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Old 05-20-2005, 09:52 AM
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Default Re: Further X-Curve discussion

ah... i see. i think your solution is the right one, and, for what it is worth, what i would do. and, yeah, the decoder dealing with the curve also seems dubious to me. i'd curious to hear from others (in addition to richard) who know about this as well.

thanks richard for your usual detailed and very informative post!
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Old 05-21-2005, 07:01 AM
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Default Re: Further X-Curve discussion

Quote:
Poster: Andy Hay
Subject: Re: Further X-Curve discussion

SNIP
The theatrical speakers are probably not the way to go for mixing a DVD.... which begs another question.... why is it that "big" TV shows are being mixed in theatrical rooms (which obviously employ the X-Curve) - seems like a less than ideal monitoring environment for mixing TV.

dr.sound replies:
Every "big" TV show I know of have multiple speakers to listen to. For example I have the Large front wall, I have mid fields AND I have a TV. If it sounds good on all three then it's a keeper!
Hell, why don't we mix it on a black and white TV with a mono speaker? Why dosen't the Picture Editor cut his show on a 6" black and white portabe TV? Are you telling me you can tell what shows are mixed with an "X Curve"? BS!!
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Old 05-21-2005, 10:19 AM
Andy Hay Andy Hay is offline
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Default Re: Further X-Curve discussion

Quote:


dr.sound replies:
Hell, why don't we mix it on a black and white TV with a mono speaker? Why dosen't the Picture Editor cut his show on a 6" black and white portabe TV? Are you telling me you can tell what shows are mixed with an "X Curve"? BS!!
No, I am not saying I can tell what shows were mixed with or without X-Curve! Not sure how you arrived at that conclusion from my post, and I certainly don't appreciate the attitude of your response. There seems to be a bit of a virus going around the DUC lately - a holier than thou, I know everything, bow before me, shut up and listen to what I have to say - well that's just pathetic. I think it was my mother who once told me, if you have nothing nice to say, then don't say anything at all. Geez!!

My question was - why mix a TV show in a theatrical room that is destined for the home. A studio in Hollywood that I mix at is booked every week to mix a big cop TV show. That room only has theatrical speakers, and I know for a fact that they do not bring in near-fields to do the show, because I've been present during one of the mixes. My curiosity and desire to learn and understand more about my profession is what prompted me to ask the question, as it directly relates to my current situation - I have a mix to do that is destined for the home, yet I have a great theatrical room at my disposal.

Anyone with a valuable response, feel free to chime in.
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Old 05-21-2005, 01:21 PM
cmaynes cmaynes is offline
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Default Re: Further X-Curve discussion

This is a great topic-

Since we have really too broad of a scope of playback venues, it is kind of hard to do a timely mix that excels in every venue- I remember the first time I listened to the track of Terminator 2 (the film that inspired me to do sound for films) on headphones, and I was aghast at the quality of it- there were so many defects such as bad punches and cut off fades, etc, etc... It was quite revealing. HOWEVER- in the theatre, or even on TV, the track KICKS ASS!, blows me away everytime I watch it-


I do not have a ton of TV experience, but I have mixed programs at Sony and Universal. It seems that most times the near fields are used (especially on a theatrical stage) followed by the TV and finally, the wall is used for wow factor / verification. At least as far as I can tell, there can be a potential issue with mixing sans x-curve, since I think it can impact dialog eq (over filtering). The original idea behind the x-curve was to reduce broadband noise- and since most dub stages were actually smaller than the theatres of the day, the beautiful effect that air travel imparts does wonders to take away hiss (which might be offensive in the dubbing session. Of course the loudness specs have impact as well- (79db vs 85db)


Marti's comments are dead on right- pros will always check on multiple playback systems.

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Old 05-21-2005, 06:45 PM
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Default Re: Further X-Curve discussion *DELETED*

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