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  #921  
Old 04-10-2019, 08:02 AM
simon.a.billington simon.a.billington is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools 2019 !

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Originally Posted by JFreak View Post
No, didn't. Actually didn't buy into HDX because I was using Waves TDM at the time pretty heavily.

The reason I "whine" about this is I don't take promises lightly and their promise was to support "every major plugin platform out there", and their thinking of Avid DSP not being a major platform didn't make me happy. And of course the fact that 50% of the price I paid for Mercury TDM just vaporised with that decision.

They even published results of SSL Channel plugin (a heavy one anyway) that they were able to have "only marginally better" instance counts compared to Accel. We would have been happy with "similar" instance counts, but they didn't listen to us.

Which is why a customer can "whine".
In all fairness, though, Waves isn't the only high profile developer not supporting AAX DSP. So you have to begin to ask why?? Perhaps Avid has made it too hard for developers to port that it will no longer be cost effective in the end or maybe Avid wants a huge slice of the profits?!?

Either way, I don't think Waves' should be the target of people's frustration on the matter. It's not really a productive approach anyway.
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  #922  
Old 04-10-2019, 08:11 AM
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off the wall off the wall is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools 2019 !

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Originally Posted by JFreak View Post
That's pretty much what everyone is thinking. And full price of DSP means 200% compared to full price 100% of native. Now they are in the 10% bargain bin.
Waves and Avid dropped the ball big time with AAX-DSP. It would have been in both companies and their pro-users at the time best interest to have done everything possible to get Waves onboard with AAX-DSP

I held onto PT 10/TDM for a very long time. That system with 5 TDM cards was by far the best recording rig I ever had.
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  #923  
Old 04-10-2019, 08:24 AM
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Bob Olhsson Bob Olhsson is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools 2019 !

Quote:
Originally Posted by justinhill View Post
... Avid said at the time that the new AAX/DSP format would mean it would be really easy for developers to port plugins from AAX to DSP but it turned out it wasn't, apparently.
Actually they said that unlike TDM, it would be really easy to port FROM AAX DSP to AAX native. Many developers no longer use the Avid SDK because it can't render VST and AU plug-ins. In spite of that, I understand there are actually more AAX-DSP plug-ins available today than were ever available for TDM. That, of course, doesn't help people who want Waves. Unfortunately, VST is the biggest plug-in market.
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  #924  
Old 04-10-2019, 09:43 AM
Justin1524 Justin1524 is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools 2019 !

I'm really curious what kind of extra programming time/financial resources would have been involved in Waves putting out AAX-DSP versions, in addition, to VST3, AU, AAX Native and Soundgrid versions they do now? I mean it seems downright stupid to me not to do all of the above and sell more plugins right?

Now from Avid's point of view, they should have made it so inviting for Waves and other companies to make AAX-DSP that they couldn't resist jumping onboard. I suspect whatever negotiations took place at the time were dominated by greed on both sides with the customer losing in the end. Avid should have created better price points for AAX-DSP to get more buy-in from different customers and everyone is happy and makes money.

And by the way, Avid should support other formats with Pro Tools and better integration. I mean, really why not? JFreak pointed out that VST and AU don't support in-sync automation, well ok, but people/other software use these plugin formats all the time for years and years, Pro Tools should to. Pro Tools should support ARA2 for Melodyne which is a staple. Pro Tools should import other formats like FLAC, Apple m4a etc. this is basic, basic stuff most DAWs can do. Pro Tools should also strike a deal with Waves to support Soundgrid integration into Pro Tools. Please tell me why not? Provide features customers can use, you'll make money right? Duh!

Instead what we have is corporate execs (who I won't name) sitting on their thumbs expecting to make money on a product without any vision or future investment. And then they wonder why customers are upset?! Dumb, dumb, dumb. Ok rant over.
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  #925  
Old 04-10-2019, 09:55 AM
jgaz jgaz is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools 2019 !

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Originally Posted by JFreak View Post
Their own DSP platform was nonexistent before that decision. The original APA boxes are truly doorstops in every meaning of the word. They saw a chance to get into DSP market and tried it, only downside old loyal DigiDesign customers dropped out and now they're in the 29 dollar plugin market.
I thought it was rumored that Wave's decision to not make AAX-DSP plugins had more to do with live sound and them wanting their plugins to run on Digico consoles but not Avid's? (Avid's live sound consoles require DSP plugins)

-Jeff
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  #926  
Old 04-10-2019, 10:22 AM
noah330 noah330 is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools 2019 !

Maybe because I'm getting old but I have always liked Waves plugins and still use a lot of the same ones (modern version) that I've used for years.

I'm sure there are better plugins out there but Waves always has a current version and I'm familiar with a lot of their things and they usually work really well.

The plugin market reminds me a lot of the distortion pedal market - so much to choose from that I don't have time to even know what's out there so I stick to my old stuff.

I do think Avid coming up on 5 months of not releasing anything while taking my Ultimate subscription is a little much. Hopefully 2019 will be worth it.
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  #927  
Old 04-10-2019, 11:33 AM
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Default Pro Tools 2019 !

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Originally Posted by jgaz View Post
I thought it was rumored that Wave's decision to not make AAX-DSP plugins had more to do with live sound and them wanting their plugins to run on Digico consoles but not Avid's? (Avid's live sound consoles require DSP plugins)

-Jeff
That and then wanting to sell a box that kind of competed with an HDX card .
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  #928  
Old 04-10-2019, 11:42 AM
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Default Re: Pro Tools 2019 !

2018 ultimate was good. We really only need 1 good release per year and the support fee of 400 bucks is worth it. Imo.

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  #929  
Old 04-10-2019, 11:54 AM
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Default Re: Pro Tools 2019 !

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Originally Posted by off the wall View Post
Waves and Avid dropped the ball big time with AAX-DSP. It would have been in both companies and their pro-users at the time best interest to have done everything possible to get Waves onboard with AAX-DSP

I held onto PT 10/TDM for a very long time. That system with 5 TDM cards was by far the best recording rig I ever had.
Just what I've tried to say all these years
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  #930  
Old 04-10-2019, 12:08 PM
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Default Re: Pro Tools 2019 !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin1524 View Post
I'm really curious what kind of extra programming time/financial resources would have been involved in Waves putting out AAX-DSP versions, in addition, to VST3, AU, AAX Native and Soundgrid versions they do now? I mean it seems downright stupid to me not to do all of the above and sell more plugins right?
They have given very little information but have made a point that their SSL Channel showed "marginal increase" in plugin count TDM vs. AAXDSP (so if they can demo one of their most complex plugins it should be easy to achieve same results with the vast majority of their portfolio) and if they only had released their portfolio as 1:1 instance count TDM compared to AAXDSP most customers would have been happy. Ask anyone, don't count on me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin1524 View Post
Now from Avid's point of view, they should have made it so inviting for Waves and other companies to make AAX-DSP that they couldn't resist jumping onboard.
Maybe Avid was arrogant and thought the legacy of TDM was enough? Maybe Avid didn't have a clue that there is actually competition in DSP? Maybe Avid just wanted to maximise profit at that time and lost? We will never know. What we know is Avid provided a SDK for anyone wanting to develop AAXDSP and have previously been borrowing DSP cards for potent developers to help them out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin1524 View Post
And by the way, Avid should support other formats with Pro Tools and better integration. I mean, really why not? JFreak pointed out that VST and AU don't support in-sync automation, well ok, but people/other software use these plugin formats all the time for years and years, Pro Tools should to.
No, PT shouldn't use sub-par technology just because someone other is used to it. Just not going to happen. I also use Linux day in day out but it is not a reason why PT should exist on Linux. But I wouldn't mind if it meant dropping Mac and Win support and creating a PT-in-a-box closed system controlled by Avid. Then again, that wouldn't be sub-par technology anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin1524 View Post
Pro Tools should support ARA2 for Melodyne which is a staple.
Cannot argue with that. I use Melodyne too and wish that this would be implemented. When if ever we don't know. Workarounds work though...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin1524 View Post
Pro Tools should also strike a deal with Waves to support Soundgrid integration into Pro Tools. Please tell me why not?
No, because of AAXDSP. The sole reason SG even exists is Waves didn't want to play with Avid anymore so why would Avid want to play with Waves? Good riddance, I think most PT users are mostly done with Waves now.
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