PT 8.1 CS2 - When Midi Timing becomes a variable !!!

[Rail Jon Rogut]

Originally Posted by Rail Jon Rogut

With 8.x I fed MIDI out and back into Pro Tools from one MIDI Track to another using the MIDI IO (which is supposed to support MTS) and it did not record the MIDI in the correct location... which indicates either:

a) The MIDI IO is broken or doesn't support MTS

or

b) PT 8.x is broken and doesn't support MTS

Rail

Here's a video using the MIDI IO with PT9... Notice what happens when I switch buffer sizes and when I turn off ADC at the end...

Video

MIDI Cable from Output 1 to Input 2 of the MIDI IO

Rail

[scottgreiner]

Originally Posted by carlone

Rail is correct in that PT and Midi time stamping parted ways somewhere around Pro Tools 8. The Midi I/O at one point supported Midi Time Stamping - may e it still does but it won't matter if PT doesn't.



Midi time stamping is directly related to interfaces and can be a part of the problem or solution. And as I've said in earlier post - USB is a major factor in regards to what the performer hears (latency) while recording.

Read up on the challenges that have not been overcome yet at the OS level.

http://lists.apple.com/archives/core.../msg00113.html

While I agree that USB is often to blame and midi has never been a rock-solid protocol, I did basically the same test as Rail over a year ago, with slightly different results. With ADC on, the recorded midi was being placed early in the timeline. This is a physical impossibility except that it's Protools scooting the midi to the wrong place after the recording, to varying degrees based on the buffer size. I had posted a screenshot of it, but it's no longer on my server.

I actually downgraded to 7.4 for a midi intensive project.

FWIW, I don't have an Avid midi I/O.

[DigiTechSupt]

Quick update - we're working on this and are compiling a database of plug-ins that exhibit this behavior. If anyone comes across one currently not talked about in this thread, please feel free to point it out.

I'm also looking into the MIDI IO issues - thanks for the video, Rail, it helps immensely!

[barstool719]

I came across this thread and just had to try this on my home system. (Win7x64, PTLE 8.0.4cs2, new Avid Mbox)

WOW.

I made an instrument track, inserted xpand2, and picked an electric bass.

i recorded a simple 4 bar straight sixteenth pattern with the buffer @ 128 (lowest setting for mbox on windows)

played back at 128 just fine. i then changed the buffer to 4096 and played it back.

my dog can play bass with more solid timing. everytime i would back the timeline and hit play again (still @ 4096) it would get screwier and screwier - different and random everytime.

so i then changed the buffer back to 128. plays fine.

i bussed the midi out to a mono audio track @ 128. acceptable results.

i then made another mono track, changed the buffer to 4096, and then bussed it again.

terribly terribly off - notes getting missed, long rests - goofy sustained notes... just really really whack all around.

[usastra]

Any updates on this situation? Did it get better with PT9?

[allen_gibberish]

Any updates or should I go back to Logic again? Tell me I can stay in Pro Tools please..

[25ghosts]

Cant believe that NOTHING is happening here.

PT 9 has been released and features that same nuisance....


AVID - could you please fix this !!!

[Dizzi45Z]

I was just about to upgrade to 9 because I am tired of this problem and I didn't want to wait any longer for the CS update. But apparently, it still isn't fixed in 9!?!?

I guess I'll just "hold fast" until it is.

[DigiTechSupt]

Originally Posted by Dizzi45Z

I was just about to upgrade to 9 because I am tired of this problem and I didn't want to wait any longer for the CS update. But apparently, it still isn't fixed in 9!?!?

I guess I'll just "hold fast" until it is.

From all the testing I've done, this does not appear to be a Pro Tools issue - it's a problem with the plug-ins that are being used.

I tested with various plug-ins and only certain ones seem to exhibit the 'variable timing' problem.

I see that 25Ghosts is using BPM - in testing (with someone else that has BPM - I don't have it to test with), it definitely exhibited this issue and, along with that, just having it installed seemed to cause ripple effects with other plug-ins. Removing it from the plug-ins folder and trashing preferences seemed to correct the problem.

I'm still working through a grid as I find time. Currently what I'm seeing is:

K4 - pass
Massive - pass
all other NI plug-ins - pass
iDrum - fail
impOscar - pass
Superior Drummer - pass
Guru - pass
BFD - pass

If anyone has data showing a pass or fail and would like to add it, it would be much appreciated.

I'm using a session with quantized quarter notes and doing a bus record to a new track at 64 and 1024 sample buffers. The 'fail' is when the record pass varies in timing or does not line up (within a reasonable amount of samples) with the MIDI note.

[25ghosts]

Originally Posted by DigiTechSupt

From all the testing I've done, this does not appear to be a Pro Tools issue - it's a problem with the plug-ins that are being used.

ehhmmm, DTS.... IF you read the whole post here, you are bound to experience that the MIDI ISSUE isn't just a PLUG-IN thing...

I thought that was VERY CLEAR... But apparently it wasn't.....



I am a little troubled by the fact that a long-time digi(AVID) guy CANT even feel/sense that something is WRONG midi wise in PT....
But then again perhaps that is WHY we are having so many problems in the first place.

Perhaps you should grab hold of some beta testers WITH midi experience !!!