ROUTER choice with multiple S1's, Dock, and MULTIPLE computers?

[BradLyons]

Hello, I've taken a break from the recording/mixing side of things for quite some time---there may be some here that remember me from years back with my time at SWEETWATER and GC PRO, as well as here @ "THE DUC!". I've helped a lot of users in the past, now I am kindly asking for help! . I've been primarily focused on designing high-end Audio, Video, and Lighting systems primarily for house of worship---and now getting back into doing some post production and A LOT has changed since my days of running multiple Pro Tools HD Accel systems and a Venue DSHOW console. So here's what I'm trying to do:

Just purchased a bunch of new gear that's starting to trickle inland providing my desk arrives this week I should be able to start configuring and wiring everything up by the end of the week. Part of this equipment list includes a new M1 MAX Studio with Pro Tools Ultimate, (x3) S1 controllers and (x1) DOCK all with 10.2" iPad's. It never dawned on me I was going to need a wireless router for the iPads. But here's where it gets a little confusing so that's why I'm asking. I do lighting design (INTENSE lighting design!) that the cues were manually programmed, but now I'm reading to start dealing with timecode. Currently I have a dedicated PC running Chroma Q Vista in console mode for my lighting console that is on a private network with (1) MacBook Pro and (1) Desktop PC running, each running CAPTURE QUARTET Visualizer. But now I want to add the new M1 MAX Studio computer with the (3) S1's and (1) DOCK along with the (4) iPads. As of now I would require a minimum of (8) Ethernet Ports with the (4) computers, (3) S1's, and the (1) DOCK plus wireless wifi (private, will NOT be on the internet) to control the (4) iPads. I most likely will add a 4th S1 and another iPad, so I will eventually need more than (8) ports. My router is 8-ports and at this point, I don't see that I need to replace it. HOWEVER my question becomes the wireless router. I don't mind spending in that $300 range if I have to, but since I've just dropped over $20,000 in less than a week on the PT rig, buying the latest copy of EASE PRO, and renewing my Service Select Contract for VECTORWORKS SPOTLIGHT...I don't want to if I don't have to!!

BUT I don't want problems, I want speed, I want reliability, and I need it to work. SO what are the UPDATED requirements for a WiFi router to control the iPads that has (8) or more network ports -OR- that I could simply connect a couple of switches into (one switch at one desk running the PT stuff and another switch on my lighting desk) that will give me NO LAG and NO connection problems.

Thank you!
Brad Lyons
HOWAVL
www.howavl.com

[Darryl Ramm]

Too little info to make any recommendations here. You need to carefully inventory all the devices and understand their exact Ethernet and WiFi specs/needs.

Sounds like you want an wired Ethernet switch and a WiFi access point. A router is the part that connects to cable/the Internet, sounds like you don't need that. Do you have the switch already? You can buy a consumer network router and it will typically have a built in WiFi access point and some RJ45 Ethernet in it, maybe a small number of ports. And you can run it without the router function but it may or may not be better (for whatever definition of better) than buying a switch and separate access point.

Do you want a Ethernet switch that has 10 Mbit, 100 Mbit, 1Gbit, 10Gbit support? Do you need power over Ethernet for any devices (not any you listed so good). Do you need support in the switch for AVB now or in the future? (you did not mention interfaces, so presumably not... but ).

Many computers now have 10 Gbit Ethernet, but having a 10 Gbit switch only helps if you have two devices with 10 Gbit Ethernet that need to communicate with each other at high speed, but any 1Gbit Ethernet device will work fine with a 10 Gbit Ethernet switch as long as it has the same sort of connector (typically RJ45 twisted pair) some peripheral devices say at 10 Mbit or 100 Mbit will have connectivity problems if the switch does not specifically support those old slow speeds (look at the detailed switch specs, if it does not mention support for a speed it likely does not support it), in some cases you end up hanging a slow switch (with a fastest speed "uplink port") off a faster switch to get around this. I assume you are OK with the modern S1, but check everything you need to connect, things often get forgotten (the C|24 is an example of an Ethernet device that can have modern switch compatibility problem, but I've seen multiple Ethernet devices that have issues).

And make sure for your wiring you are using the correct category of RJ45 twister pair wiring for the speed of that link, don't unnecessarily go for the absolute fastest spec, you might suffer with a less flexible/thicker cable.

Do you want a switch that has RJ45 connections and/or SFP+ sockets (that allow you to then add RJ45 or optical connections. Optical for distance and/or galvanic isolation. I personally would not buy any switch without some SFP+ capability, but that's me.

Since it's a small isolate LAN I assume you don't want full remote management, but if I was setting up anything like this I'd want something with at least a decent html based config and diagnostics, and good security (change those default passwords!) on both the switch and WiFi access point. WiFi security is a ****-show. Get help if you don't know what you are doing there.

And be careful saying you want "speed". I suspect all you want is a consumer Ethernet switch(es) or low-end business switches with the right number of 10G, or slower ports (for compatibility). If you say you want "speed" in a switch, that's easy, that's Arista and they start at tens of thousands of dollars. I'd probably be looking for some of the Netgear rack mount switches, some decent low to mid range products. And if this was me and these were for a production studio those switches would have some web browser or serial console config and management/stats capability to look at problems (and for me configure vlans etc... but unless you have anybody who understands/wants that skip it).

You don't mention it, but if you have plans to run a NAS for file access or backups etc. you may want that on a physically isolated Ethernet.

You may want to/need to set up a DHCP server to hand out IP addresses. That functionality may be built into one or more of these devices.

You could potentially use one of the computers as a WiFi access point/ad-hoc network but probably not a good idea.

On the WiFi side... is all this access in one room? iPads only used docked to the S1s? In which case a nice single access point should be fine and having less range than a high-end unit helps stop others connecting. But what WiFi standards do you need? n/ac/ax? It's tempting to get everything but not all hubs are ax today, or cost more. And the spread from manageability, do you want a consumer type device or a Cisco Meraki. If I had to set up a business/mission critical WiFi it would be Meraki every time. Amazon eero gets my vote for easiest to set up/use consumer cable router with Wifi and wired Ethernet port. But you have to add a switch to it. If setting up for a serious commercial studio that *needs to work* I might buy the switch and access point from the the same vendor so they can share a common management tools. Also for a studio that *needs* to work I'd be setting up redundant switches/Ethernet backbones, in case a switch or WiFi access point failed. I'd avoid Ubiquiti like the plague, a company run by litigious pricks.

You say you don't want this connected to the Internet (good!), but is this the main network in a studio environment? Will clients be coming into the environment. They may want WiFi and Internet access. In which case you could provide that entirely separately with a different physical WiFi access points, or with a firewall and DMZ and guest WiFi access. So good to think that though now.

The leading issue with network reliability, once it's working (and the main issue there is making sure you have the compatibility I've already mentioned), is the wetware managing the system, so you need to look at this stuff and work out what setup/admin tools they provide and if you are comfortable with that.

[BradLyons]

Darryl,

Thank you for your response, I appreciate it. However I think you might be looking a little too deep into it, let me explain. I have computers for going online, these will not be them.

PC#1: is a VERY high-end customized system for Systems Engineering, Visualization, and Rendering.

PC#2: is dedicated to running VISTA LIGHTING SOFTWARE, that's literally all it does.

PC#3: is used as an additional secondary visualization machine, when desired.

MACBOOK PRO: Used for multiple tasks, but I use it as a secondary visualization machine synced with PC#1.

THESE (3) COMPUTERS are currently on a private switch NOT connected to the internet. This network is used solely to send DMX data from PC#2 to both PC#1 and the MACBOOK PRO.

WHAT IS NEW: Is the M1 MAX STUDIO with Pro Tools, Media Composer, and Final Cut. In addition I've bought (x3) S1 and (x1) DOCK control surfaces. I want to add these items to the existing private network so that I can send MTC over Ethernet to PC#2 running VISTA so that I can program lighting locked to MTC. That's the simple, easy part. I have the switch, it works great, I just need to get these new products installed and running. WHERE I am stuck is I NEED A WIRELESS ROUTER / WIFI ACCESS POINT to connect on this network so that I can also use the (x4) iPads that I bought to install in the (x3) S1's and (x1) DOCK. NONE of these computers are used for online, browsing, etc. including the iPads as I have another M1 Mac for general computer use, as well as my MacBook Laptop (and a PC laptop).

So what I'm asking for is that the AVID manual specifies a TRI-BAND GAMING WIFI ROUTER. What is recommended for that WIFI router that others are using that have NO performance loss, lag, incompatibilities, etc.

Thank you.

[Darryl Ramm]

That's why I was asking if you have an existing switch or not. Asus make some very well regarded "gaming" routers (even if you are just using as a the WiFi access point), consistently ranked top for that market. And Asus annoy me less than say Linksys with management/security silliness in the past.

Hopefully others will have recommendations as well.

[BradLyons]

I went ahead and ordered this, got it for $199. I believe it is one of the officially recommended routers, plus with (8) network ports on it it will make distribution quite versatile for me.

https://www.newegg.com/tp-link-arche...82E16833704423

[smurfyou]

Hi Brad. I've had good luck with TP Link. Like Daryll I tend to avoid Linksys.

I've seen a lot of Netgear routers in use. I guess Avid recommends a tri-band gaming router but in my experience the most important factor is having a dedicated router for Eucon. So I think what you got will work well with the Mac and Eucon surfaces. I just wouldn't plan to use it for additional devices. DMX comms should be fine.

[EddieJones]

Originally Posted by BradLyons

I went ahead and ordered this, got it for $199. I believe it is one of the officially recommended routers, plus with (8) network ports on it it will make distribution quite versatile for me.

https://www.newegg.com/tp-link-arche...82E16833704423

Thats why I used.....and I designed the S1....you should be good

[BradLyons]

Awesome, well that’s good to hear! 🤣. I gotta admit I didn’t like the S1 at first because of the iPad but then realized “why”. Now, it’s genius! I’ve used EVERY control surface ever made for Pro tools and look forward to pushing this one through the paces.