Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Tools Software > Pro Tools 2019

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-25-2019, 05:31 PM
laki laki is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 504
Default Bussing a Stereo Track to Mono Aux: Summing change from 2018.3 to 2019.5

Hi All,

I just recently upgraded from PTHD 2018.3 to PT Ultimate 2019.5. I'm on Mac 10.12.6 Trashcan.

I've noticed a change in how PT sums a stereo track that is bussed to a mono Aux.

In 2018.3 (and before) if you bussed a Stereo track to a mono Aux, it would yield a +3db signal (due to the summing).

In 2019.5, the same process yields a +6db signal.

I am seeing this across multiple suites on HDX and Native.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-25-2019, 06:04 PM
arche3's Avatar
arche3 arche3 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 856
Default Re: Bussing a Stereo Track to Mono Aux: Summing change from 2018.3 to 2019.5

Wow.really? Oh no. Messes up recalls then from pre 2019.5

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-25-2019, 07:16 PM
albee1952 albee1952 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: nashville
Posts: 34,746
Default Re: Bussing a Stereo Track to Mono Aux: Summing change from 2018.3 to 2019.5

Could it be the pan law setting?
__________________
Gigabyte X79/intel i7 3930K, 32GB RAM, DIGI003 Rack
https://www.facebook.com/search/top/...0sound%20works


The better I drink...the more I mix.....

BTW, my name is Dave, but most people call me.........................Dave
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-25-2019, 08:07 PM
laki laki is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 504
Default Re: Bussing a Stereo Track to Mono Aux: Summing change from 2018.3 to 2019.5

Possibly but the pan depth is set the same in both instances. So, they shouldn't be different.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-25-2019, 09:11 PM
SBP SBP is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 299
Default Re: Bussing a Stereo Track to Mono Aux: Summing change from 2018.3 to 2019.5

Just saw your post and happened to be in in a studio with pt11.3.1. and also pt2018.12.0

So did the following check. Both have same result.

If I put 1k tone (Created via audio suite signal generator which would make it a coherent source) on a stereo track at -20dB and then route that to a mono aux the result is -14dB on the mono aux.

anyway hope the info helps

Cheers

Bruno

Last edited by SBP; 06-25-2019 at 10:40 PM. Reason: Adding coherent detail
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-25-2019, 10:06 PM
BScout BScout is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,996
Default Re: Bussing a Stereo Track to Mono Aux: Summing change from 2018.3 to 2019.5

I think everyone needs to be clear if they are testing coherent or non-coherent/incoherent sources.

A coherent source will sum to +6. This has nothing to do with pan law but everything to do with audio physics.

An incoherent source should sum to +3.

Basic calculator and explanation

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-leveladding.htm
__________________
Pro Tools Ult 2019.6, HDX 3, MTRX/SPQ, HD OmniMac Pro 5,1 - 3.06 GHz 12 core - macOS 10.13.6RAM 64GB, SSD 4 x 2TB, GPU GTX 980 4GB
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-26-2019, 12:06 AM
laki laki is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 504
Default Re: Bussing a Stereo Track to Mono Aux: Summing change from 2018.3 to 2019.5

Hi Guys,

Thanks for this.

Here are two screen shots of the same session. I am using a file for the tone made by the Audiosuite Signal Generator @-20. It is the same file for the left and right.

2018.3 Mono= -17 Stereo= -20
2019.5 Mono= -14 Stereo= -20

Given Bruno's results, maybe 2018.3 is the problem?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 2018.3.jpg (24.7 KB, 0 views)
File Type: jpg 2019.5.jpg (24.1 KB, 0 views)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-26-2019, 07:11 AM
64GTOBOY's Avatar
64GTOBOY 64GTOBOY is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Houston
Posts: 706
Default Re: Bussing a Stereo Track to Mono Aux: Summing change from 2018.3 to 2019.5

Are the tones time aligned? Audiosuite tones are notorious for not starting the waveform exactly at the same point in time, so i would double check phase alignment
__________________
Dell XPS 8900 i7-6700K CPU @ 4.00GHz 32 Gig Memory:Seagate 2 TB,1TB,4TB,500gb EVO OS Windows 7 Ultimate
PT 2019.6 Native through A&H Qu-32
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-26-2019, 03:53 PM
laki laki is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 504
Default Re: Bussing a Stereo Track to Mono Aux: Summing change from 2018.3 to 2019.5

Quote:
Originally Posted by 64GTOBOY View Post
Are the tones time aligned? Audiosuite tones are notorious for not starting the waveform exactly at the same point in time, so i would double check phase alignment


This is why I used the same file for both left and right. Only way to be sure.

Regardless, I should get the same result in both versions of PT.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-26-2019, 10:42 PM
laki laki is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 504
Default Re: Bussing a Stereo Track to Mono Aux: Summing change from 2018.3 to 2019.5

From Avid Support:

The issue you reported is by a known issue with PT12.0 - 2018.3,
which was fixed in PT2018.7.
The current version is working properly and the previous versions (12.0 - 2018.3) did not...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
PT Summing Stereo Tracks to Mono - differences between PT10 and PT12 buyonnet Pro Tools 12 11 05-06-2017 01:17 AM
Change a track from mono to stereo in PT12 jamestr12 Pro Tools 12 11 04-14-2017 05:13 PM
Summing a stereo track to mono scadh 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Win) 8 06-03-2010 02:16 PM
SIMPLE Q' RE: Rec/bussing a stereo signal to mono. Rudiebassic Tips & Tricks 2 10-29-2005 06:01 PM
Bussing reverb - stereo or mono? MidnightFlyer 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 6 06-16-2003 02:34 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:27 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com