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  #11  
Old 03-17-2018, 10:34 AM
zavid zavid is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools Ntive vs HD Tdm sound comparison

Quote:
Originally Posted by YYR123 View Post
Well youtube might skew your ears as well.....due to it's compression format.
(big : P.O.S. , apart)
BScout ;^)
if original source audio file have sufficient quality ,
the differences are audible (…"wood ears" apart)

i found audio files on youtube that sound better than the one for sale on iTunes & co.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gives View Post
Drew speaks the truth here and I totally agree having gone thru the whole TDM versions from the beginning. To be honest, I don't miss those days at all. I think the AAX plugs sound better and are more stable that RTAS ever was.
G
As on the thread title the topic is about the difference between
Native AAX on daw cpu (no dsp cards) Vs HD Tdm (with dsp cards)

but the test have to be done with a session mixdown
that include 16-20 tracks ,
and same plug ins with same settings

starting with the old Tdm HD system

and later import the song session into the Native AAX daw ,
for save time ,

hoping that the compatibility between same plug-ins
work as it should.
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  #12  
Old 03-17-2018, 12:35 PM
gives's Avatar
gives gives is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools Ntive vs HD Tdm sound comparison

Quote:
Originally Posted by zavid View Post
if original source audio file have sufficient quality ,
the differences are audible (…"wood ears" apart)

i found audio files on youtube that sound better than the one for sale on iTunes & co.



As on the thread title the topic is about the difference between
Native AAX on daw cpu (no dsp cards) Vs HD Tdm (with dsp cards)

but the test have to be done with a session mixdown
that include 16-20 tracks ,
and same plug ins with same settings

starting with the old Tdm HD system

and later import the song session into the Native AAX daw ,
for save time ,

hoping that the compatibility between same plug-ins
work as it should.
Well. To answer your question "specifically"...I find that with my older TDM Accel system and also the even older TDM system I had for years, that the Native HD is totally better and I hardly use any CPY at all. Something like 22% even with a bunch of tracks at 96k or 48k with VI's.. I do have a fast machine and a lot of ram, but have not really had any issues since going to 11+ and even way better on Version 12 and now on 2018.3 Protools HD Native. I have a couple of pals in LA that do a lot of scoring like me and one got ride of he HDX system and is running a totally Native HD now. G
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Gregory Ives, Composer/Sound Designer/Musician
http://www.gregives.com
https://pro-labs.imdb.com/name/nm1170521/?ref_=sch_int

Protools 2019.10 Ultimate HD Native Thunderbolt Avid HD IO
Mac Pro 3.5GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon E5 64GB of Ram
OSX Mojave 10.14.6, Digital Performer 9.5, Logic Pro X 10.4.6

Last edited by gives; 03-17-2018 at 10:54 PM. Reason: correction
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  #13  
Old 03-17-2018, 02:10 PM
BScout BScout is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools Ntive vs HD Tdm sound comparison

Quote:
Originally Posted by YYR123 View Post
(big : P.O.S. , apart)




BScout ;^)


I've had easier conversations with game producers who speak no English at all and we had to use pictograms to discuss sound mixes. I honestly don't know if the OP was trying to offend because I don't even understand it (and the "fun with formatting" isn't helping.)

I think the basics is he wants to compare the output of a TDM system vs an HDX native with the same plugins. Problem is that RTAS/TDM plugins are not directly portable to AAX format so the plugins are inherently different. On top of that, the mixer on TDM was 48 bit fixed (with 8 bit accumulator) and AAX native is 64 bit float.

AAX will win everyday unless the plugin developer screwed up massively. Higher precision, lower noise floor.
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  #14  
Old 03-17-2018, 04:43 PM
zavid zavid is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools Ntive vs HD Tdm sound comparison

Quote:
Originally Posted by gives View Post
Well. To answer your question "specifically"...I find that with my older TDM Accel system and also the even older TDM system I had for years, that the Native HD is totally better and I hardly use any CPY at all. Something like 22% even with a bunch of tracks at 96k or 48k with VI's.. I do have a fast machine and a lot of ram, but have not really had any issues since going to 11+ and even way better on Version 12 and now on 2018.2 Protools HD Native. I have a couple of pals in LA that do a lot of scoring like me and one got ride of he HDX system and is running a totally Native HD now. G
thanks for post ,
about "climb" (from old to new) the pro tools versions
have you had issues with the plug ins layout and settings
loading old song made with old pro tools versions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BScout View Post


I've had easier conversations with game producers who speak no English at all and we had to use pictograms to discuss sound mixes. I honestly don't know if the OP was trying to offend because I don't even understand it (and the "fun with formatting" isn't helping.)

I think the basics is he wants to compare the output of a TDM system vs an HDX native with the same plugins. Problem is that RTAS/TDM plugins are not directly portable to AAX format so the plugins are inherently different. On top of that, the mixer on TDM was 48 bit fixed (with 8 bit accumulator) and AAX native is 64 bit float.

AAX will win everyday unless the plugin developer screwed up massively. Higher precision, lower noise floor.
You are still not on the topic
dear big : P.O.S.


ps:
I still remember very well
the various tests made with cubase vst , cubase vst 24
with "that" 32 bit floating point ,
and Pro Tools III with audio settings at 16bit , ProTools LE and Rtas plug ins ,

and the huge differences of related audio quality ,

also compared with "pcm" format…..
(mitsubishi digital 32 tracks+apogee cards ADA converters)

just to say that (for who have "problems" and "limits") :
the difference in the number of bits
iis not a "quality" indicator…

( dear big : P.O.S. )

Last edited by zavid; 03-18-2018 at 11:21 AM.
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  #15  
Old 03-18-2018, 10:22 AM
Extreme Mixing Extreme Mixing is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools Ntive vs HD Tdm sound comparison

Quote:
Originally Posted by zavid View Post
thanks for post ,
about "climb" (from old to new) the pro tools versions
have you had issues with the plug ins layout and settings
loading old song made with old pro tools versions?



You are still not on the topic
dear big : P.O.S.


ps:
I still remember very well
the various tests made with cubase vst , cubase vst 24
with "that" 32 bit floating point ,
and Pro Tools III with audio settings at 16bit ,

and the huge differences of related audio quality ,

also compared with "pcm" format…..
(mitsubishi digital 32 tracks+apogee cards ADA converters)

just to say that (for who have "problems" and "limits") :
the difference in the number of bits
iis not a "quality" indicator…

( dear big : P.O.S. )
Why bother posting if you already know everything? Older sessions do not always come back right. That's more a matter of old plugs not loading their settings than of what Pro Tools is doing. McDsp, Waves, and others don't reload their settings. Even the old Avid Delay doesn't load. I guess that just is what it is. The new systems sound better and are more powerful than the older versions. That doesn't mean that you can't do great work on an older system. Most of us here have made our decision with our wallets to stay current.

Steve
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Extreme Mixing
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  #16  
Old 03-18-2018, 11:18 AM
zavid zavid is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2014
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Posts: 120
Default Re: Pro Tools Ntive vs HD Tdm sound comparison

Quote:
Originally Posted by Extreme Mixing View Post
Why bother posting if you already know everything? Older sessions do not always come back right. That's more a matter of old plugs not loading their settings than of what Pro Tools is doing. McDsp, Waves, and others don't reload their settings. Even the old Avid Delay doesn't load. I guess that just is what it is. The new systems sound better and are more powerful than the older versions. That doesn't mean that you can't do great work on an older system. Most of us here have made our decision with our wallets to stay current.

Steve

It is forbidden talk about ?

is this a forum or what else ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Extreme Mixing View Post
Older sessions do not always come back right.
old plugs not loading their settings than of what Pro Tools is doing. McDsp, Waves, and others don't reload their settings. Even the old Avid Delay doesn't load.
Steve
And it is serious ?
(for something sold as professional )
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  #17  
Old 03-18-2018, 03:34 PM
Matt Hepworth's Avatar
Matt Hepworth Matt Hepworth is offline
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Location: Utah
Posts: 423
Default Re: Pro Tools Ntive vs HD Tdm sound comparison

TDM and the new Native engines sound nearly identical with the same plugins. However, if you are used to the sound of pushing/being at the headroom ceiling of TDM (hot tracks and a little red on the clip meters here and there) HD Native will sound different, since those won't be clipping. Native is, therefore, more forgiving and sounds more open as a result.

As JFreak mentioned, though, with proper gain staging i find the two interchangeable/nearly indistinguishable.

I tested this when I first got an HD Native card.

I currently track on TDM PT version 10 and mix on native PT version 12 on the same system.
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  #18  
Old 03-18-2018, 03:37 PM
Matt Hepworth's Avatar
Matt Hepworth Matt Hepworth is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools Ntive vs HD Tdm sound comparison

Yes, opening a PT10 session in PT12 or later does convert certain plugins and they will show "missing" if you open them in PT10 again.

Some of those are AutoTune 7, Digi Delay, Mod Delay, Eleven (changes to mk II), Click, etc.

EQIII 4 band will show missing in PT12 as well.
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  #19  
Old 03-26-2018, 05:45 AM
zavid zavid is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools Ntive vs HD Tdm sound comparison

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Hepworth View Post
TDM and the new Native engines sound nearly identical with the same plugins. However, if you are used to the sound of pushing/being at the headroom ceiling of TDM (hot tracks and a little red on the clip meters here and there) HD Native will sound different, since those won't be clipping. Native is, therefore, more forgiving and sounds more open as a result.

As JFreak mentioned, though, with proper gain staging i find the two interchangeable/nearly indistinguishable.

I tested this when I first got an HD Native card.

I currently track on TDM PT version 10 and mix on native PT version 12 on the same system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Hepworth View Post
Yes, opening a PT10 session in PT12 or later does convert certain plugins and they will show "missing" if you open them in PT10 again.

Some of those are AutoTune 7, Digi Delay, Mod Delay, Eleven (changes to mk II), Click, etc.

EQIII 4 band will show missing in PT12 as well.
Finally a good reply related to thread title
and much thanks about !

it sound like :
if a song session is not much big
(number of tracks and plug ins)
and DAW Cpu is a bit fast (Intel i7)

the HDX cards are not necessary

reason why Avid Nasdaq quote is running down as a rolling stone ?


Last edited by zavid; 03-28-2018 at 09:57 AM.
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