5.1 file channel order

[marcelkavka]

Hi,

does anyone know how PT manages interleaved multichannel files when importing them? Is there any signature in the file which tells about the track order and does PT read it?
I have 5.1 files from several sources and the tracks are mixed up all the time. C is R or LFE/LS/RS vs. LS/RS/LFS. All this film/smpte/dts stuff. it's a pitty that you are never sure. Ambiences are hard to analyse whether R and C is in the right place.

[feliponk]

Hi: that info should be part of the file header, or the metadata.

[off the wall]

Originally Posted by marcelkavka

Hi,

does anyone know how PT manages interleaved multichannel files when importing them? Is there any signature in the file which tells about the track order and does PT read it?
I have 5.1 files from several sources and the tracks are mixed up all the time. C is R or LFE/LS/RS vs. LS/RS/LFS. All this film/smpte/dts stuff. it's a pitty that you are never sure. Ambiences are hard to analyse whether R and C is in the right place.

It's a mess and not just because of Avid.

I do a lot of 5.1 for network TV and film. I always deliver in six discrete mono files and ask the same to be supplied to me. That way no mistakes are made.

[cut]

Originally Posted by marcelkavka

Hi,

does anyone know how PT manages interleaved multichannel files when importing them? Is there any signature in the file which tells about the track order and does PT read it?
I have 5.1 files from several sources and the tracks are mixed up all the time. C is R or LFE/LS/RS vs. LS/RS/LFS. All this film/smpte/dts stuff. it's a pitty that you are never sure. Ambiences are hard to analyse whether R and C is in the right place.

Set your output order to SMPTE in the I/O page - below the grid - and the interleaved WAV files will follow that order despite being in the FILM format in the session. I worked with AVID on this as we do a ton of 5.1 at NBC Sports. This absolutely works - we did a ton of tests.

For AAF export I always split the 5.1 tracks into the proper SMPTE order from top to bottom prior to export.

[Frank Kruse]

Originally Posted by cut

Set your output order to SMPTE in the I/O page - below the grid - and the interleaved WAV files will follow that order despite being in the FILM format in the session. I worked with AVID on this as we do a ton of 5.1 at NBC Sports. This absolutely works - we did a ton of tests.

Wow, this was complete news to me
Do you know from which PT version it works this way? Used to be a complete mess from version to version. Film layout export but SMPTE import and vice versa depending on the version and never really documented or flagged in the fixed bug reports.

I just tried this by exporting a 5.0 file via commend-shift-K twice. Once in film and once in SMPTE order set in default path order and both came out at SMPTE order.

What's your secret?

Many thanks!

Frank

[BScout]

https://avid.secure.force.com/pkb/ar...FAQ&popup=true

[smurfyou]

Originally Posted by BScout

https://avid.secure.force.com/pkb/ar...FAQ&popup=true

Frank is right, it's a mess and has always been a big undocumented lapse.

Take this FAQ above. I know for a fact I was outputting SMPTE order files in July of 2016 when that FAQ was written. Despite it saying PT can't do that. At some point, I think with PT11 they switched the output to default to SMPTE order.

I would ask for an option box to check on export but honestly the only times I deliver interleaved files are for clients that require SMPTE so it hasn't been a big deal. Otherwise I use multi-mono.

[TimNielsen]

Pretty sure PT always exports files in SMPTE format, and always shows them in FILM format. I don't think you have any control at all over either.

[BScout]

Originally Posted by TimNielsen

Pretty sure PT always exports files in SMPTE format, and always shows them in FILM format. I don't think you have any control at all over either.

Yup.

Just ran 3 tests. Always exports SMPTE order. Always shows FILM order.
Doesn't matter what path order is set in I/O.

FAQ is wrong

(even used Cubase to import/export 5.1 files from Pro Tools and always the same; in that way it's good news as everything stays outputting/routing correctly)

[BScout]

Originally Posted by marcelkavka

Is there any signature in the file which tells about the track order and does PT read it?

Obviously it depends on the source if it is creating it, but yes, there's a metadata block of "wave extensible format" in the wave file that Pro Tools (and other audio/video programs) is reading. Cubase has an option to turn off writing that chunk and then things go wrong. Otherwise both Pro Tools and Cubase are writing a SMPTE order chunk and importing into the respective DAWs with correct track order -- Cubase is SMPTE inside the DAW and Pro Tools is FILM inside the DAW.