Why the AIR expansion pack isn't more popular in dance music?

[DBK]

I dont get it. Its 7 VSTs for 300 bucks (150 now?!) for students yet NOBODY uses it. I dont understand. Dance music is still growing and with that there are so many people purchasing more and more soft synths.

You can get all 7 of these instruments in the pack for around the same price as NI's Massive alone. The bargain itself cant be denied, there is no better expansion pack out there for this value.. (150 bucks for Vacuum Pro, Hybrid 3, Transfuser, Strike 2, Velvet(Rhodes!), Loom and Structure Pro) yet you cant even find one video on youtube of sound design with Hybrid or Loom. Haven't even checked for vacuum.

Im not saying I need these video tutorials, I'm saying its weird that they are non existent. Yet every other synth has countless sound design videos displayed online. The quality of this pack compared to the price is unbelievable, yet nobody seems to use it in the "youtube edm" generation. Yet Massive, 200 bucks by itself, is owned by pretty much everyone and their dog. Are people really this naive in thinking they need massive? I cant think of anything Massive could do that Hybrid cant. Yet the rate of usage is about 5000:1 in favour of massive (or any other synth out there). Obviously that numbers a random stab in the dark but you get my point.

Not to mention Loom. I cant really think of any other synths out there like Loom right now, but again, not one consumer video is on youtube. NOT ONE. Why do you think this is?

[Southsidemusic]

It looks like you kinda answered your own question there

Most people on who puts out these videos on "utube" uses other DAW's and up until recently the AIEP 2 wasn't working outside of Pro Tools. Almost every video with the VI bragging rights have Cubase, Live or some other DAW and the VST options wasn't there before regarding AIR instruments

And IMNSHO they suck bigtime soundwise for modern music. We do work in that realm of style and have had lots of songs sold to big artists and bands and never ever did we use any of the AIR VI's until LOOM came around and Hybrid3 which are OK at best. A lot of hobbyists and Avicii wannabees don't have Pro Tools and they never bought into the AIR stuff as there are soo many better options out there today. They could sell it for $1 and it still wouldn't be used by most reputable EDM producers but I'm sure you will get alot of other opinions regarding this from users here. I still stand by the fact that this bundle is medioker and isn't suitable for producers who makes a real living off their music.

Christopher

[DBK]

Originally Posted by Southsidemusic

It looks like you kinda answered your own question there

Most people on who puts out these videos on "utube" uses other DAW's and up until recently the AIEP 2 wasn't working outside of Pro Tools. Almost every video with the VI bragging rights have Cubase, Live or some other DAW and the VST options wasn't there before regarding AIR instruments. They were RTAS only and was only working in Pro Tools

And IMNSHO they suck bigtime soundwise for modern music. We do work in that realm of style and have had lots of songs sold to big artists and bands and never ever did we use any of the AIR VI's until LOOM came around and Hybrid3 which are OK at best. A lot of hobbyists and Avicii wannabees don't have Pro Tools and they never bought into the AIR stuff as there are soo many better options out there today. They could sell it for $1 and it still wouldn't be used by most reputable EDM producers but I'm sure you will get alot of other opinions regarding this from users here. I still stand by the fact that this bundle is medioker and isn't suitable for producers who makes a real living off their music.

Christopher

Interesting. What reasons would you choose something like massive or sylenth (wow I even feel cliche just saying those names haha) over Hybrid? As far as sequencing/mod/routing capabilities Hybrid 3.0 pretty much has it all. Is it just a sound quality thing or whats your reasoning behind saying its only mediocre for modern music?

[Southsidemusic]

Sonce we do live a sweet life off music we produce and our team writers we have tried to get the AIR plugins to sound as good as say Nexus2 / Tone2 / Massive / PhalanX / Spire / Synthmaster2 etc etc and it just doesn't. The record companies demand super modern sounding music if it is any way of Electro or dance music and the AIR stuff just doesn't cut it.

No soundscaper or programmer teams make any patches or presets for these VI for a reason and there are soo many better sounding synths that does this with eaze for a few hundred bucks where you get one dedicated synth for the money, not 7 synths that are old and clunky when you only use one or two of them ( LOOM and Hybrid3) which as i said we do use sparse on a few songs.

Not to mention the extremely user UNFRIENDLY installer deliveries.

Just an era that came and went unfortunately.

We have bought both AIEP1 and IEP2 but when we never use them it's 50-60GB of old samples and tired looks taking up drive space.

I agree that the update we paid ($99) for 7 VI is a great deal but after owning the original PTIEP we got the same old samples and sounds in the new update and were pissed off.. I think AIR knew this hence we got LOOM and Vacuum Pro for free in that bundle but as we have rec execs breathing down our necks nowadays we have to deliver a certain sound. I know some people say they can repro every EDM track with AIR and with FL studio but they can't. Seen sooooo many videos of
"This famous song in FL" but they don't even come close, thats why not everyone on youtube release music for a living, they think it sounds great and if that was the case, why don't those guys work with major labels who demand good music done for the masses ..

I will probably get some flack for saying this but remember this is my thoughts only, not everyone here will agree and that's OK

Best Regards
Chris

[DonaldM]

Unlike Christopher, who I greatly respect, I don't make a living off my music tracks (yet!) However, I have Nexus 2 and Vanguard as well as Omnisphere, Reason 7, Dune 2, Serum, and the PTIEP. I do agree with Christopher that VI's like Nexus or Dune 2 sound great...they really do. I would disagree, though, that only Loom and Hybrid3 are worthy. Vacuum Pro actually does sound great and you can program some very nice (and usable) fat analog style sounds with it. But my go to VI in the PTIEP is Transfuser! Because you can load in your own samples and loops, it is a truly usable and fun to work with groove maker. It is easy to set up, has some great onboard fx and the editing features make it easy to come up multiple variations of different loops. I LOVE Transfuser. That one, I think, deserves a whole lot more attention!

Structure, unfortunately, is hurt by the fact that there are very few good sample libraries out there for it. However, because you can import your own samples, you can create some very nice sounds with it, if you're willing to spend the time to do it. Mostly what I like to use Structure for is creating interesting vocal fx where I might, say, take a few slices off a vocal track of certain notes, assign them to the notes in Structure, and then edit away to create some funky sounding vocal stuff, and stutters. Its great for that.

Strike...hardly ever use. If it hadn't come with the package, I wouldn't even have missed it, to be honest.

Velvet...only once in a great while, if I need a good old style sounding electric piano. Its great for that. Otherwise, hardly touch it.

But, I have to honest and say that with the exception of Transfuser, which I use on almost everything I do, the otherrs aren't my "go to" VIs. Nexus, Omnisphere, Serum, Dune 2, Vanguard, Reason, Alchemy (Camel Audio) and sometimes Xpand2 (has some nice poly synths and basses) are usually where I pull from first...those and, of course, sounds off my Yamaha Motif XS8...which has some great sounds on it too.

AIR didn't do a very good job aligning themselves early on with producers and sound designers to get them to jump on board with their VIs. If they had, it'd be a different story I suspect. And, as Christopher pointed out..installation is a b*****! AIR is saying that new sound banks for Hybrid, Loom and Vacuum Pro are coming out..."soon"....whenever that is.

[DBK]

I completely forgot about that installation process! I was up downloading files until like 4am because I wanted to get it all done that night haha. Computer only allowed like 12 at a time or something and there are what..70 some? I cant remember but yes that was annoying.

And I cant believe I forgot to mention Transfuser. I havent used it a lot yet in detail but I have watched the Groove3 videos and I was/am excited about that one. I just dont work with a lot of loops right now so havent used it too much yet.

Unlike you guys I'm still pretty green so I dont have a lot of different synths to compare the AIE pack too. I was basically just judging from capabilities and price range. I would be biased and talking out of my *** if I started talking about its sound quality since like I said, not a lot to compare it too. Pro Tools is the only DAW I've used and the AIE pack is the only add on to Pro Tools Ive bought.

As for Velvet I just used it on a song for the first time today and I really like the sound of it. But again, nothing to compare it to.

All things considered if I had the chance to go back I would still easily pay the 300 I paid for it. And AIR was pretty good to me. I originally bought it for 300 at the student discount and then found out AIR lowered the price to 150/Student discount a cpl months later. I emailed AIR for the hell of it and they actually credited my card with the 150 bucks I paid extra(which was the price at the time) like 2 months after I paid for it. Didnt expect that!

[Kinh]

Yes expansion pack is good value for money but there are much sharper and grittier sounds out there.
I stopped using Transfuser when I got my hands on DM307. Likewise with Hybrid3. Thought that was great when 1st tried it though. Personally I think its their best Vi.

As far as not being popular amongst dance enthusiasts, I dont think its so much about whether its good enough, rather the way these guys prefer to work. FL Studio tends to be their DAW of choice and they start from scratch and use subtractive/additive synthesis a lot but they always seem to start with an initial patch...no presets, with every freaking track they create, most of the modulation is within the DAW not the plugin.
Check this..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK9U...7S-Qf1UfuE6Dot

This gives you an idea of how they work...No Massive, no FM8, no Omnisphere, just very basic FL stock plugins.
They're just really good at doing so much with so little.

[WernerF]

Exactly! Being good at what you do and making the most of very little is a tried and true aspect of most new music. The EDM guys would be besides themselves if they had acces to some extra synths from the AIR collection. They don't need them but I would be super surprised if they couldn't or wouldn't use them.

We do a lot of Indie Rock records and even though we have quite a few other soft synths and, not to mention some actual vintage ones like a Mini Moog and a Jupitor 8 among other's, we still use the AIR collection quite frequently. Velvet is absolutely the best sounding electric piano VI. I have all of the other's and none of them sound anyway near as good or the same as our real Rhodes and Wurly. I know that this is for Indie Rock and not EDM but we use these VI's to add the electro elements that we need as there are many synth based bands, like MGMT, these days. As producers we and the band members never feel like we're compromising when we use any of the AIR collection stuff. Of course they are not always the first choice, nothing is, but when they are they are great.

[glasswing]

Some sounds in Structure are usable.
I'm using some in a fairly high budget film job.
Problem is, the new Structure is pretty hosed. Super buggy. I've spent 6 days now trying to get it to work.
I like Vacuum, Hybrid. Looking forward to Omnisphere, which arrives this Friday. But I really like the frame drum and cajon in Structure.
Will pay a pretty penny to get a good alternative.
I can live with that. As long as it works and doesn't eat an expensive week of my time.
When it comes to VI's, if it doesn't work in Vienna Ensemble Pro, I think you're rolling the dice.

[Dopamine]

I'm was thinking of buying Structure and see it comes with 37 gig of sounds for $150. That's a great deal. But not if the majority of the sounds are crap.

I have Kontact and not impressed with it's library.

So it's either Structure or Sample Tank 3.

Any opinions on these?