Help: Rewiring Fast Track Ultra 8r to Standalone Preamp!

[Megyalila Ballad]

Hello,

I have a Fast Track Ultra 8r which I want to internally rewire to bypass the AD/DA converters between the combi-preamp inputs and the line outputs effectively making the device a standalone preamp — thereby obviating the need for external clock synchronisation (which is impossible with this device).

The device was killed off by AVID including all forms of support, hence I cannot even reach the technical team for any enquiries.

What is the (re)wiring process I have to go through? I will be DIYing this, so if anyone can help me navigate through this step-by-step or guide me to any relevant resources I would be grateful.

[Darryl Ramm]

This is an impractical idea. The effort, cost and results would likely not be worth it. If you want an 8 channel analog or ADAT preamp throw this one in the trash and buy one. You can pick up units starting at a few hundred dollars, and/or lots of used gear out there. There was nothing sonically great about any of these MAudio products that is going to make hacking on them worthwhile.

The problems is not that you cannot clock the interface from an external source (you actually can clock it externally), the problem was the interface has never designed to do what you are trying to do and have a simple analog preamp mode. … however if you attach an old PC or Mac with the control software you can configure the hardware mixer in the 8R to forward the inputs to the outputs. There was no supported stand alone mode but with some of these boxes if you set up the routing in the control software and disconnect the computer you might find it keeps working in a stand alone mode. You have to try it and see.

It is highly unlikely anybody from M-Audio/Avid would want to spend time with you on this even if they were still around, what you are asking is way outside any kind of customer support any hardware vendor is likely to offer. It is unfortunate that you can no longer get drivers, but these were low price products built down to that price point by a struggling company that should never have been chasing the consumer hardware market.

[Craig F]

Even in the design team was still around its highly unlikely you would get anything from them.
I agree with Darryl that it is not a practical endeavor.

Now if you want to look at it from an electronics learning experience, go to town.
Step 1: try and identify the IC chips being used, primarily the receiving Op Amps, the gain Op Amps, any buffer Op Amps, and the differential output Op Amps
Step 2: go over the data sheets for the various Op Amps
Step 3: try soldering a jumper wire from the output pin of the last Op Amp of the input block to the corresponding channel Output block's input pin

[Megyalila Ballad]

I appreciate your input; however, I am going to address a few points at the end.

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

(you actually can clock it externally)

And still utilise all 8 I/Os? That’s the first I hear of it. Do kindly elucidate how to functionally do so to enlighten me.

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

however if you attach an old PC or Mac with the control software you can configure the hardware mixer in the 8R to forward the inputs to the outputs. There was no supported stand alone mode but with some of these boxes if you set up the routing in the control software and disconnect the computer you might find it keeps working in a stand alone mode. You have to try it and see.

That’s quite insightful. Worth a try. Will give it a try and let you know if it works out. Thank you for the suggestion.

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

It is highly unlikely anybody from M-Audio/Avid would want to spend time with you on this even if they were still around, what you are asking is way outside any kind of customer support any hardware vendor is likely to offer.

There is no need for me to say any of this, but I will anyway because it might have an effect on how you comport yourself with others in the future.

Right. Before you jumped the gun, attacked and demeaned me, this was an idea I got after I tried to contact the technical support team to no avail as AVID has clearly excluded any customers who do not own/ have not paid for a support plan, and the only other alternative is to call. I cannot do either as I am
1) not going to pay for a service that should be a given to existing customers
2) not going to spend a fortune in international phone call fees.

Thus, neither is feasible.

After haggling with AVID’s chatbot, I was able to get through to a CS agent, from whom I requested the tech support’s team’s email — to no avail — to simply enquire about whether the rear line out bypasses the AD/DA converters altogether or not, and if there is a way to digitally route it in such a way. As simple as that, yet AVID evidently employs a ‘you-must-buy-the-privilege-to-contact-us’ policy for technical enquiries — which I am not going to entertain — to receive support for a product which I had already purchased from them. I was advised to consult the “community” whereby I found an interesting thread on the idea of converting an interface to a standalone preamp, and that’s where the idea arose from. But, perhaps my phrasing and the context was unclear, hence your understandable deduction but ill mannered and insensitive statements.

The solution to all of this: AVID provides an email or fill-out form for customers to directly contact them as EVERY other company and business does. Nothing remotely difficult to implement.

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

It is highly unlikely anybody from M-Audio/Avid would be want to spend time with you on this even if they were still around

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

throw this one in the trash and buy one. You can pick up units starting at a few hundred dollars

Kindly refrain from making such insensitive and depreciating nuanced statements. I don’t appreciate myself nor my circumstances being devalued and deprecated.

Not everyone can nonchalantly “throw [things] in the trash” and dish out on “a few hundred dollars”. I still have cross-currency exchange rates, international shipping, customs duties, import tax, handling tax, and on top of all that rising inflationary pressure to account for when making my investment decisions in the gear I have.

Have a little more tact.

[Megyalila Ballad]

Originally Posted by Craig F

Even in the design team was still around its highly unlikely you would get anything from them.

Thank you for your reply. The reason for contacting AVID was not as the previous commenter incorrectly inferred. It was to enquire about whether the AD/DA between I/O is bypassed by function, and if not, whether this could be done by digitally routing; but I could not get in touch with them to even relay such a simply enquiry.

Originally Posted by Craig F

Step 3: try soldering a jumper wire from the output pin of the last Op Amp of the input block to the corresponding channel Output block's input pin

That’s very helpful. I would have no idea what I would be doing, so I’ll try to read around a bit following the steps you’ve outlined and see where that gets me. Not sure I’ll actually proceed with this if I can’t get the proper electronics understanding right. It’s better as is than tampered with and completely useless.

By soldering a jumper wire as you’ve mentioned, I assume I would effectively be establishing the connection between input and output, but would doing just that bypass the AD/DA circuitry altogether or would the AD/DA still be part of the circuit?

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by Megyalila Ballad

Thank you for your reply. The reason for contacting AVID was not as the previous commenter incorrectly inferred. It was to enquire about whether the AD/DA between I/O is bypassed by function, and if not, whether this could be done by digitally routing; but I could not get in touch with them to even relay such a simply enquiry.

And I gave you the exact answer that "digital routing" (aka "hardware monitoring") works when connected to the control software, and although not officially support you can try and see if you can get stand alone behavior to work. You could also have found that answer by searching with Google. You don't need to talk to any "technical team".

You would bypass all the ADC/DAC and digital hardware. Possibly remove that hardware entirely from the circuit/power. If you have no idea what you are doing with audio electronics then you are wasting your time here hoping to modify stuff by just connecting things together, unless you really want to take time to learn, and have access to soldering and desoldering gear, multimeters, and ideally an oscilloscope. You may need to cut PCB traces, cut/lift chip legs, etc. and as Craig mentioned you need some understanding of integrated op amps/buffers etc. and their misc. support components used in these circuits to know where to tap into stuff/cut signal paths. You may also need to add in capacitors or resistors to get this to work optimally. Nothing is complicated but a novice at this will need to be willing to do some study/learning and have basic soldering skills etc. If you want to learn there that you are likely better off starting by buying some simple electronic audio project kits and following the instructions to build those (guitar pedal kits can be great if you are a guitarist). And/or find a mentor who can walk you though what to do. You might also find practical electronics courses at local community colleges or equivalent. And at the end of all this you still end up with a not very good preamp, ... but if you want to learn electronics go for it this could be a great accomplishment.

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by Megyalila Ballad

There is no need for me to say any of this, but I will anyway because it might have an effect on how you comport yourself with others in the future.

Right. Before you jumped the gun, attacked and demeaned me, this was an idea I got after I tried to contact the technical support team to no avail as AVID has clearly excluded any customers who do not own/ have not paid for a support plan, and the only other alternative is to call. I cannot do either as I am
1) not going to pay for a service that should be a given to existing customers
2) not going to spend a fortune in international phone call fees.

Thus, neither is feasible.

After haggling with AVID’s chatbot, I was able to get through to a CS agent, from whom I requested the tech support’s team’s email — to no avail — to simply enquire about whether the rear line out bypasses the AD/DA converters altogether or not, and if there is a way to digitally route it in such a way. As simple as that, yet AVID evidently employs a ‘you-must-buy-the-privilege-to-contact-us’ policy for technical enquiries — which I am not going to entertain — to receive support for a product which I had already purchased from them. I was advised to consult the “community” whereby I found an interesting thread on the idea of converting an interface to a standalone preamp, and that’s where the idea arose from. But, perhaps my phrasing and the context was unclear, hence your understandable deduction but ill mannered and insensitive statements.

The solution to all of this: AVID provides an email or fill-out form for customers to directly contact them as EVERY other company and business does. Nothing remotely difficult to implement.

Maybe you want to think a little more when other folks are tying to offer you help, and maybe instead of spending effort here telling me and Avid what we should be doing, you want to just focus on solving the actual situation you got yourself into instead of wasting so much time going on about Avid support.

You state you know MAudio was killed off by Avid then seem confused about why you can't get support for the products. How can I make this more clear? Do I need to draw pictures? MAudio at Avid is *dead*, it has ceased to be. Avid sold off the remnants of MAudio to InMusic brands over a decade ago, and they killed off some individual remaining products. Avid also went through multiple rounds of layoffs and shed lots of staff. There is no support for these products, there is nobody to contact. Having a support plan will not help you. If you opened a case it would likely be closed as not supported. Everything to do with MAudio was sold off by Avid or abandoned. Again, over a decade ago. Avid does not even list the Ultra 8R as a discontinued product, it's so old. But it is, discontinued, beyond end of support life. Which means you get no more support. None. Zilch. Nada. Clear?

Maybe the Avid chat bot/person could have made this clear and did not, maybe they said something that made you incorrectly believe there might be support available for this product?

Avid does not need you telling them they need to provide support forms for products that are way beyond end of support life, why would they do that if they have no intention of supporting the product at all?

Wether you can afford to throw something out or not is your problem. I'm laying out *all* the choices you have and trying to get across to you that what you have is not worth a lot, again you can purchase an alternative, likely as good or better ADAT preamp for a few hundred dollars. If you could pull off modifying your interface yourself I expect it's likely to cost you more than that in time, tools, parts and certainly effort. But as a learning experience could be great... as was Craig's point. And especially if you can't afford other options then you need to think about this before upgrading your computer and running into lack of driver support issues.

And... as for an actual useful solution which might help you if you have access to an older PC or Mac then try what I suggested with hardware monitoring. Again that is all well described in the user documentation, no need to contact anybody for info there. The only thing not clearly stated in the doc is the idea that there is no official stand alone mode, but this might work for you stand-alone, but that's something that's been discussed multiple times online in the past for M-Audio products.

[Megyalila Ballad]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

Maybe you want to think a little more when other folks are tying to offer you help, and maybe instead of spending effort here telling me and Avid what we should be doing, you want to just focus on solving the actual situation you got yourself into instead of wasting so much time going on about Avid support.

OK. Since you want to make this personal, I will say this in a way that I hope will benefit you.

I understand your intention to help, which is why the first words I intentionally chose to relay to you were words of appreciation and gratitude before calling you out. What you may not seem to realise — perhaps due to lack of self-awareness — is that your methods betray your intentions; and your defensiveness, berating and deprecating nuanced attacks, blame-shifting, lack of accountability for your words, callousness, and vividly condescending prose, all come across as hostile and betray your intention to help.
I am sure if you have someone close to you — discerning and tactful in language — read out your comments for you, they will be able to distinctly highlight the points I have previously mentioned. There are too many instances to point out in your last message alone. Typical narcissistic word-salad.

You’re evidently missing the entire point. Providing a simple fill-out form or email to enquire about technical issues to receive an answer for a query — without having to pay to be permitted the right to contact tech support to enquire — is mutually exclusive of the fact the device has been killed off. That’s a non-sequitur logical fallacy. I discovered support for the device ended after struggling to find a way to contact AVID, where the CS rep had to contact the tech team to relay this information to me. How then in your right mind do you assume I would have this knowledge which even the CS team didn’t? You make too many ill-conceived assumptions.
I would not be able to know any and all support for the device ended if I cannot contact the source to reliably receive that information. Or do you assume everyone has the same knowledge you have of AVID’s affairs, and is as much acquainted and a fan as you are?

More than anything, why are you offended by my opinion and personal experience with AVID? It’s my experience and is completely exclusive of you... I don’t appreciate you invaliding me, nor attacking and condescending me, and most of all having the audacity to blame me for clarifying your own mistaken assumptions, and misunderstanding.

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

How can I make this more clear? Do I need to draw pictures?

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

None. Zilch. Nada. Clear?

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

Wether you can afford to throw something out or not is your problem.

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

And I gave you the exact answer

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

You could also have found that answer by searching with Google. You don't need to talk to any "technical team".

All harmful and offensive prose. No one wants to hear that stuff, so don’t say it.

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

It is highly unlikely anybody … would want to spend time with you on this even if they were still around

Why would you speak to people in such a personally berating manner? It makes a world of a difference and suffices to say “It is highly unlikely anybody … would want to spend their time on this even if they were still around”

I’ve dealt with too many narcissistic personalities who disguise the stick as a carrot and see nothing wrong in doing so. So, as much as I am thankful for your input and appreciate your intention to help, I am not obligated to accept it if there is more harm than benefit to me in dealing with you. You are not godsend, and I am not begging for your help, Darryl. I am here for solutions and have already spent too much of my time calling out your toxic demeanour. If you have something useful to say: welcome, please say it. If not: keep your condescending and callous prose to yourself and move along.


Your first sentence in your first message sufficed to convey your opinion on the matter tactfully and succinctly.

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

This is an impractical idea. The effort, cost and results would likely not be worth it.

Since you felt the need to point out your perceived worthlessness of the device, instead of callously saying

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

throw this one in the trash and buy one. You can pick up units starting at a few hundred dollars

You could have worded it exactly like this the first time around

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

what you have is not worth a lot [in resale]… you can purchase an alternative, likely as good or better ADAT preamp for a [fraction of your device’s original cost]. If you could pull off modifying your interface yourself I expect it's likely to cost you more than that in time, tools, parts and certainly effort. But as a learning experience could be great...

Notice the subtle edits. The same concept applies to all your other toxic comments.

For the love of all that is Good: did no one ever teach you “it’s not what you say, it’s how you say it”?

Nonetheless, thank you again for your input. I will try your suggestion on the ‘hardware monitoring’ and see how that turns out. The question if that works successfully, then, is: how would I externally clock the device? I do not know if any other way except S/PDIF; however, as I am aware, I can only use channels 7/8 as the manual states “Note that Fast Track Ultra 8R can only receive input signal from its S/PDIF input when the clock setting has been set to “External.”” Correct me if my understanding is mistaken.

[Darryl Ramm]

I do not understand why you keep asking about clocking, clocking is irrelevant here. I have already said that. You are setting up stuff described well in the manual. Clocking has *nothing* to do with anything here unless you are trying to use an S/PDIF input or output and that is not what you have asked about. And if you need to do that it is easy to do just follow the directions in the manual.

For the third or fourth time. Please read the manual, you are starting to, but read it carefully. Maybe there is something else here you are trying to do or maybe you are confused by hardware monitoring... it confuses *lots* of people. Just get in and play with it, set up according to the manual and play with it routing audio through the 8r with *no DAW* or other audio app running to prove to yourself all the routing is happening in the 8r. Play with sending say a mic input to attached headphones etc.

[Megyalila Ballad]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

I do not understand why you keep going on about clocking, clocking is irrelevant here.

I understand where this is coming from. I did not explicitly mention that my idea to convert the interface to a standalone preamplifier was to integrate all 8 I/O into my signal chain — FTU8r into dedicated AD/DA — without the need to clock it since it would be analogue.

If the “hardware monitoring” suggestion you offered is successful, then I would need to clock the device in the case the first 6 I/O are still usable (though the manual states only channels 7/8 receive signal in external clocking mode).

Does that make sense?