TDM support in Pro Tools 11 petition.

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by Marsdy

They already have.... It's called Pro Tools 10. It supports TDM/RTAS AND AAX Native..... Pro Tools 10 is a transitionary release. I am suggesting Avid do the same thing with Pro Tools 11 because of the chronic shortage of HDX plug-ins.

So you mean PT11 that runs 64-bit software using TDM hardware with only supporting AAX-native plugins? Yeah, right, sounds very usable. Would be better to switch to HD|N

Avid has said it loud and clear that TDM/RTAS will not be supported in the 64-bit Protools. They have said it loud enough that it must have been written in some very large stone nobody can lift.

Best we can hope is very long PT10 support. IF the major new feature of PT11 is its 64 bitness, then Avid could just as well port the other new features to PT10 (and keep those periodic bug fixes coming). That way the PT10 as a transition would be even greater. Once PT12 comes, nobody would expect old versions be updated anymore.

And I think PT11 release is not that close as we speak....

[peterle]

as much as i like too the idea of TDM support in PT 11 ,
why not also for my old MIX TDM system...°!°,
i highly doubt it would make much sense..
other factors like voice count in HD hardware limit you
before you hit the memory wall when using audiotracks..,
when using VI it makes sense to have a 64 bit PT regarding memory..
... a simple solution like the "memory server" a`la NI Kontakt in
a 32 Bit PT (10.5 HD ?) would do the same.
I doubt that it would be easy to implement for example
32 bit audio files support for current TDM hardware.

You would need a lot of engineer ressources to support
four or five Plugin formats at the same time in one program.
The more complex a program is , the more bugs you get ,
to get maximum stability keep it simple , so i vote for
a plain HDX version for the future.


I would vote for a longer support for the version 10 ,
(including extended memory like "memory-server"
described above)
parallel to an existing PT 11 HDX.
Maybe a paid 10.5 HD update with features as described
to keep existing systems at least working for lets say 2-3 years.

BTW im still on HD hardware ,
in the moment there is no need to upgrade
to HDX , and till few plugins i need for my daily work
(Pitch f.e. !!!) aren`t AAX DSP it makes no sense.

regards

[Marsdy]

Originally Posted by JFreak

So you mean PT11 that runs 64-bit software using TDM hardware with only supporting AAX-native plugins? Yeah, right, sounds very usable. Would be better to switch to HD|N

No that's not what I'm saying.... I'm saying PT10 supports AAX Native, AAX DSP, RTAS AND TDM..... I'm suggesting a 64 bit PT11 does the same. As I said, my information source claims this is technically possible, contrary to Avid's claim that it isn't.

Avid has said it loud and clear that TDM/RTAS will not be supported in the 64-bit Protools. They have said it loud enough that it must have been written in some very large stone nobody can lift.

That is indeed what they've said but their claim is that it can't be done for technical reasons, that TDM cannot be supported by a 64 bit Pro Tools.

Best we can hope is very long PT10 support. IF the major new feature of PT11 is its 64 bitness, then Avid could just as well port the other new features to PT10 (and keep those periodic bug fixes coming). That way the PT10 as a transition would be even greater. Once PT12 comes, nobody would expect old versions be updated anymore.

Fair point.

And I think PT11 release is not that close as we speak....

Don't be so sure..... I've been reliably informed Q1 next year...

[Marsdy]

You would need a lot of engineer ressources to support
four or five Plugin formats at the same time in one program

They are already doing this in Pro Tools 10... TDM/RTAS/AAX Native/AAX DSP.

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by Marsdy

They are already doing this in Pro Tools 10... TDM/RTAS/AAX Native/AAX DSP.

Yes, and that's why PT11 is AAX-only. They have unofficially stated that the old way of TDM/RTAS "negotiating" with PT hampers AAX so make no mistake, PT11 will not support the old. That is the whole big point about it. It's the new way of handling plugins. AAX is pretty much limited it PT10 and it will be unleashed to full power once PT11 is released.

As long as we're even talking about TDM/RTAS we're talking about PT10 and earlies. And that is a big question -- how long will Avid support "the old world" once the new kid is on the block? I would hope that is a very long support period, because there are currently a whole lot customers that are depending on the old TDM platform, a.k.a. the trusted and loved 3rd party plugins.

(And by support I mean that every single little or big feature that is technically possible to backport to PT10 would actually be backported. I know that the whole 64 bitness and AAX plugin stuff is out of the realm, but everything else that do not drop into these two categories, why not bring them to the TDM world..? Okay, marketing dept says they need more HDX sales but the fact is not many of us *can* upgrade even if we wanted. I for one cannot even consider buying HDX card(s) until there are Waves AAX-DSP plugins available, so please marketing dept take these kind of real issues into question when you draw the line in the sand...)

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by Marsdy

No that's not what I'm saying.... I'm saying PT10 supports AAX Native, AAX DSP, RTAS AND TDM..... I'm suggesting a 64 bit PT11 does the same. As I said, my information source claims this is technically possible, contrary to Avid's claim that it isn't.

TDM/RTAS + AAX Native/DSP = PT10.

While it may be technically possible to support the old plugin formats in 64 bit world, it is not a very good idea to keep supporting them beyond PT10. We already have one "bridge" release, it just does not have 64 bit support. And it's not a big deal because the workstations that can be used with the old cards cannot hold very much RAM. The whole point in 64 bit software is the ability to address virtually infinite amount of memory.

And the whole point in getting rid of the old plugin formats in PT11 is that Avid can finally drop the old restrictions. Supporting TDM/RTAS is keeping AAX performance on par with the old, and we will only find out later whether AAX is on par with AU performance, which many of us have envied a long time.

So to sum this and few other posts up; best we can ask for is looooooooonnnnnngggg support for PT10

[Marsdy]

OK I've been searching for the last three hours.... There is a post from an Avid employee... I think it was Max before he left that stated TDM support was impossible in a 24 bit version of Pro Tools. I CANNOT find it... I know it's there somewhere. Any ideas?

[CME]

I'm on board for a long run of pt10 for those who need it. But a new version of pt that is slimmed down with no archaic TDM/RTAS code to bog it down and full 64-bit support??? Sounds much better than a 64-bit PT10. Just my .02.

[capt kirk]

all thier decisions are driven by economics and how it can fit thier 'model' ...its the same reason apple 'ruined' Final Cut Pro, on purpose....

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by CME

I'm on board for a long run of pt10 for those who need it. But a new version of pt that is slimmed down with no archaic TDM/RTAS code to bog it down and full 64-bit support??? Sounds much better than a 64-bit PT10. Just my .02.

I completely agree. We need to let Avid redevelop their code, it seems it clearly needs a rewrite. All the past/present errors of Avid management (and there are lots of them) are infuriating but not really relevant here, Avid has to move forward with what they have now. And we can't all keep asking Avid to row the boat forward faster and at the same time be asking to throw the anchor out.

Issues for my personal use of Pro Tools are things like lack of 64 bit memory and support for things like larger VI sessions, a more flexible midi editor (just go copy Logic please...), and overall stability/robustness. But even then I'm willing to give up some stability/robustness to get to a 64 bit environment.

TDM was nice, is still nice for folks running it, but its such technically antiquated stuff the very last thing Avid should be doing is trying to keep this alive vs. focusing all available resources on a new clean rewrite.

All those other features people have wanted for ages like faster than real time bounce, automatic track freeze etc. etc. are likely all dependent on a modern non-RTAS/non-TDM code base.

Darryl