Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Tools Software > Tips & Tricks

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-29-2020, 12:32 PM
Daniel_Dettwiler Daniel_Dettwiler is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: ch 4125 riehen
Posts: 465
Default Analog vs. digital mixing

No idea if this is interesting for anyone here, but who knows.

Being asked by many students about the difference about analog and digital mixing and realizing that there is not so much useful information about that topic (at least not for free), I created a 33 minutes tutorial that covers some aspect of these topics.

Let me know what you think.

https://youtu.be/v8QITLl5Fgk

And yes, my english could be better, but that's as it is

Daniel
__________________
Daniel Dettwiler
Idee & Klang
www.ideeundklang.com
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-30-2020, 09:44 AM
albee1952 albee1952 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Norwich, CT
Posts: 35,947
Default Re: Analog vs. digital mixing

Good stuff, but I have a suggestion:
Instead of announcing which version, playing, then announcing the next version and playing, skip the pause and talk and use a graphic on the screen to show which version is being heard. The "stop and talk" breaks things in a way that makes it tougher to notice any audible change(if any happens).
__________________
Gigabyte X79/intel i7 3930K, 32GB RAM, DIGI003 Rack
https://www.facebook.com/search/top/...0sound%20works


The better I drink...the more I mix.....

BTW, my name is Dave, but most people call me.........................Dave
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-01-2020, 01:52 AM
Daniel_Dettwiler Daniel_Dettwiler is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: ch 4125 riehen
Posts: 465
Default Re: Analog vs. digital mixing

that's a good point..
__________________
Daniel Dettwiler
Idee & Klang
www.ideeundklang.com
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-08-2020, 06:02 AM
martthie_08 martthie_08 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 169
Default Re: Analog vs. digital mixing

very nice Daniel, thanks for that!

I find it most difficult to achieve a certain grip and heft while staying inside the computer and yes, as you mention in the video, an open top end without being harsh.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-09-2020, 11:14 AM
Daniel_Dettwiler Daniel_Dettwiler is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: ch 4125 riehen
Posts: 465
Default Re: Analog vs. digital mixing

Quote:
Originally Posted by martthie_08 View Post
very nice Daniel, thanks for that!

I find it most difficult to achieve a certain grip and heft while staying inside the computer and yes, as you mention in the video, an open top end without being harsh.
Danke Matthie

Yes, that's really more difficult in digital, yet also possible.
We discussed in another forum, that it would be a great other lesson to take that drum files again and only do an ITB Box, until I would be satisfied. Then see how that one compared to the analog.

Also what is interessting, is to hear the analog and digital version at the end of the video (where I show it including their busses). The difference is rather clear, but then, if you close the eyes and just try to hear when I switch, the difference suddenly gets smaller. Our brain makes things stronger as long as we know what is what. (Not saying that there is no difference, analog EQ's and Comps do have a reason, that is clear..)
__________________
Daniel Dettwiler
Idee & Klang
www.ideeundklang.com
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-10-2020, 02:04 AM
martthie_08 martthie_08 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 169
Default Re: Analog vs. digital mixing

Quote:
The difference is rather clear, but then, if you close the eyes and just try to hear when I switch, the difference suddenly gets smaller. Our brain makes things stronger as long as we know what is what.
yes, a little but in my opinion it is still very clear that your analog processing sounds more appealing!

I feel there is often a need to compensate more with digital mixing, which can lead to quite a chain of processing on individual channels.

Tasteful analog processing on the other hand leads to more pleasing results in a more straightforward manner, with the side-effect of "solving" issues that you'd never thought were issues until you tried to recreate the processing with the digital counterparts.

That said, I do work heavily with digital tools but having some key pieces as actual analog hardware can be helpful to give you some orientation. As much as I try to keep my plugin processing chains minimal, this does not always work. Seeing people that I regard as pioneers in digital mixing like Tchad Blake use tons of processing makes me feel less guilty about it though :)

With the example in your video, imo the snare has a more classy sound with the 1178 on it, whereas the digital processing tends to be a bit more pokey. I've been experimenting with clippers (standardClip, Ozone, UBK-1..) to address this by choking the initial transient on drums and other transient rich instruments.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-10-2020, 02:24 AM
Daniel_Dettwiler Daniel_Dettwiler is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: ch 4125 riehen
Posts: 465
Default Re: Analog vs. digital mixing

Quote:
Originally Posted by martthie_08 View Post
yes, a little but in my opinion it is still very clear that your analog processing sounds more appealing!

I feel there is often a need to compensate more with digital mixing, which can lead to quite a chain of processing on individual channels.

Tasteful analog processing on the other hand leads to more pleasing results in a more straightforward manner, with the side-effect of "solving" issues that you'd never thought were issues until you tried to recreate the processing with the digital counterparts.

That said, I do work heavily with digital tools but having some key pieces as actual analog hardware can be helpful to give you some orientation. As much as I try to keep my plugin processing chains minimal, this does not always work. Seeing people that I regard as pioneers in digital mixing like Tchad Blake use tons of processing makes me feel less guilty about it though :)

With the example in your video, imo the snare has a more classy sound with the 1178 on it, whereas the digital processing tends to be a bit more pokey. I've been experimenting with clippers (standardClip, Ozone, UBK-1..) to address this by choking the initial transient on drums and other transient rich instruments.
Yes the attack phase of i.e. a snare is most difficult in digital. George Massenburg explained very good, that it is exactly that phase that can absolutely not be emulated at all. The gain is reduced so fast, but in analog a lot of things here, chaos but also heavy amplitude modulation. The AM goes up to very high frequencies than slap back to the audible range and gives inharmonic and somewhat unpredictable but nice and rich soundding distortion. The plugins can not emulate that. I personally thing that Waves (and other 1176 clones) bust the first transients of the sound a little bit to compensate at least a little bit to what they can not emulate.

If I work in the box, which is fun too, I tend to also use lots of plugins, the more the better (for me), but every plugin does less than I would do with an analog toy. To me many plugins doing less give me a better sound. The harmonic distortion that is missing in the plugs I do with decapitator, saturn or FrontDAW (United plugins). Having a combination of maybe up to 6 or 8 Plugins on the Snare often give me a pleasant sound.

By the way, in my Video about compression and harmonics there is a lot of info about this, if you want to check out. There is also a cool explanation about why we need to thing about dynamic..

https://youtu.be/AlRkidUyp9M
__________________
Daniel Dettwiler
Idee & Klang
www.ideeundklang.com
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Digital VS. Analog Mixing Tom Graham Avid Pro Mixing General Discussion 24 05-28-2015 11:20 AM
Mixing with analog console johnnyz Pro Tools HDX & HD Native Systems (Mac) 8 07-07-2011 10:32 AM
Anyone here mixing analog? puremusic Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 20 12-15-2007 12:18 AM
Should I dither when mixing to analog first? pugman84 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 6 07-07-2005 05:17 AM
Digital vs Analog mixing: BEST SOUND ? Sinboy 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 13 03-14-2000 11:07 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:25 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com