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Old 12-18-2018, 05:12 AM
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Default Final Master Levels

Is it possible to get a recording as loud as pro mixes without some kind of brickwall limiter on the Master Bus? Should tracks naturally get louder when EQ'd properly? I'm trying to figure out if the whole loudness war thing has to do with just putting a limiter on the Master bus or dialing in the limiter to crush.

Do you guys mix into the limiter or put it on at the end? Also, do you insert it as the first, last or some other position in the chain? I'm using Waves L-3, which limiter do you guys like?
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Old 12-18-2018, 05:42 AM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
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Default Re: Final Master Levels

There's no need to go loud especially with the bit depths we have available to us. The loudness wars are over dude

Tracks shouldn't get louder as you eq; certain frequencies will get louder as compared to others. What is needed is to watch track levels so they don't significantly increase as you eq. The Fabfilter Pro Q3 has a button to press so that when you raise or lower an eq point the level coming out of the plugin stays or tires to stay the same.

I would never mix into a limiter on my 2-bus. I might use one on a drum bus if I really need to bring up the levels but keep them from going crazy into the red. I know as long as one stays within the daw any red indicators on channels won't matter but proper gain staging is a better way to go and never let tracks go that far.

I'll use a limiter as the last piece in my 2-bus chain to catch the odd over level. I set the max level to -1dB on the limiter. There's no need to go higher than that, especially if you're going to put things up on YouTube or other online service. I have the Waves L3 set of limiters but don't use them. My limiter of choice is the Fabfilter Pro L2. You can get louder and cleaner with that limiter than anything else out there. Here's a YouTube video on a 4 limiter shootout: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBWN1ZqEYJw I know he show the Pro L but the Pro L2 is an updater version and all he says still pertains. I even did the shootout myself and it pretty much mirrors what he found.
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Old 12-18-2018, 05:43 AM
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Default Final Master Levels

A pro mix that has been mastered or just a print of a mix buss?

If the former, no. If the latter, yes, but stages of compression/saturation etc. are required throughout the mix phase to get a loud mix.

Dynamic control is definitely required if you’re after a loud constant mix. No way around that.


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Old 12-18-2018, 05:52 AM
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Default Re: Final Master Levels

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Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
There's no need to go loud especially with the bit depths we have available to us. The loudness wars are over dude

Tracks shouldn't get louder as you eq; certain frequencies will get louder as compared to others. What is needed is to watch track levels so they don't significantly increase as you eq. The Fabfilter Pro Q3 has a button to press so that when you raise or lower an eq point the level coming out of the plugin stays or tires to stay the same.

I would never mix into a limiter on my 2-bus. I might use one on a drum bus if I really need to bring up the levels but keep them from going crazy into the red. I know as long as one stays within the daw any red indicators on channels won't matter but proper gain staging is a better way to go and never let tracks go that far.

I'll use a limiter as the last piece in my 2-bus chain to catch the odd over level. I set the max level to -1dB on the limiter. There's no need to go higher than that, especially if you're going to put things up on YouTube or other online service. I have the Waves L3 set of limiters but don't use them. My limiter of choice is the Fabfilter Pro L2. You can get louder and cleaner with that limiter than anything else out there. Here's a YouTube video on a 4 limiter shootout: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBWN1ZqEYJw I know he show the Pro L but the Pro L2 is an updater version and all he says still pertains. I even did the shootout myself and it pretty much mirrors what he found.

The Fabfilter stuff looks awesome; I dont have $200 to throw at a plugin tho.
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Old 12-18-2018, 05:57 AM
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Default Re: Final Master Levels

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Originally Posted by adam79 View Post
The Fabfilter stuff looks awesome; I dont have $200 to throw at a plugin tho.
$169 when logged into your account at Audio Deluxe.
Sometimes you have to spend money to get the results you want. Especially if you want quality. I find the Waves limiters to be crap to tell the truth; difficult to get a good clean & loud sound from them.
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Old 12-18-2018, 06:48 AM
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Default Re: Final Master Levels

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
$169 when logged into your account at Audio Deluxe.
Sometimes you have to spend money to get the results you want. Especially if you want quality. I find the Waves limiters to be crap to tell the truth; difficult to get a good clean & loud sound from them.
I used Waves plug-ins for years, but not any longer.
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Old 12-18-2018, 08:04 AM
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Default Re: Final Master Levels

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
$169 when logged into your account at Audio Deluxe.
Sometimes you have to spend money to get the results you want. Especially if you want quality. I find the Waves limiters to be crap to tell the truth; difficult to get a good clean & loud sound from them.

I agree; not a big fan of the Waves L3. Gonna demo the Fabfilter L2 and a couple others. The bx_Masterdesk looks cool, but it's also pricey. Read good things about Ozone Maximizer, and it's only 49$. I've also seen people like using Standard Clip going ibto a second limiter.

Last edited by adam79; 12-18-2018 at 08:19 AM.
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Old 12-18-2018, 09:29 AM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
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Default Re: Final Master Levels

Quote:
Originally Posted by adam79 View Post
I agree; not a big fan of the Waves L3. Gonna demo the Fabfilter L2 and a couple others. The bx_Masterdesk looks cool, but it's also pricey. Read good things about Ozone Maximizer, and it's only 49$. I've also seen people like using Standard Clip going ibto a second limiter.
bx-master desk isn't really a limiter; buy the Pro L2 - you won't be sorry. Being that Fabfilter has a 30 day fully functioning demo you can get a lot done in that time period.
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Old 12-18-2018, 09:44 AM
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Default Re: Final Master Levels

I think multiband limiters (it is important to know how they differ and their typical uses) are the way to go if you want to be loud, the combination of L3 or L16 with L2 is killer, I dare you to tell me exactly what you can't get with it or with the Avid Pro Limiter. Now, Fab Filter in infinitely better because like all of their plugins it offer a hundred more options and the best workflow on the planet.
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Old 12-18-2018, 09:59 AM
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Default Re: Final Master Levels

I used Waves for a long time and found the secret was to use 2 or 3, with each doing gentle limiting(as opposed to 1 plugin slammed). Having said that, I am really digging Ozone 8. Well worth the price
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