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  #1  
Old 06-07-2007, 09:47 PM
Jon Martin Jon Martin is offline
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Location: Ormond Beach, FL.
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Default Plug in selection

I'm new to the whole plug in scene and over the years have acquired a few of my favorite analog processors for my personal insert rack, namely my EL8 Distressors, BSS 901 II and a dbx 160SL.
I've been using one of the EL8 into the 901 on my center vocal guy who's "speaking/singing voice" is much louder than his "screaming voice" and going 6-10db into compression without noticeable squashing was almost a godsend with the EL8. His "screaming voice" resides in the 250hz-2k range so engaging the HP Detector was useless and adding 2nd or 3rd order harmonics was just too harsh so I knock 2k-(ish) down with the 901 and and a little bit in the 200hz range to get rid of some of the boomy-ness when he is speaking. The other EL8 I've been using on the Bass DI Dirty with the Detector in HP/Peak and Audio on Dist.2. with the "NUKE" ratio engaged to give it a really compressed 'grunt'.
dbx160SL:
I've never been a big fan of compressed guitars but figured I'd give it a shot. I put the 160 across two subgroups and shipped the guitars to that..just below 4:1 and hit it hard on the attack and a fast release time, I'd have the techs chunk on a muted low 'E' and shave off the top of that and hit it with some make-up gain. This seemed to keep them from stepping on the the Bass and would make the rhythm guitar stay in place when I would crank up a lead.
This is a metal band with lots 'o leads and lots of the "CHUNK-CHUNK-CHUNK" stuff.

Beside the obvious gates on the drums, what are some recommended plug ins based on my input list?
I'm really interested in what plug in(s) emulate or are close to a EL8.
(Ed, you mentioned that the BF76 is close to the Distressors higher ratio settings but from what info I have gleaned it is emulation of the Urei 1176 (Opto) Peak Limiter.) I'm looking for something that can emulate the 2nd order harmonics and a really sharp knee like the EL8 in NUKE mode.

-Eddie Mapp and Scott Fahy have been gracious enough to give me some tips and their choices are noted with a (*).-

1 Kick 52 - Gate and/or ____?
2 Kick 91 - Gate and/or ____?
3 Kick 52 - Gate and/or ____?
4 Kick 91 - Gate and/or ____?
5 SN top - Gate and/or ____?
6 SN bottom - Gate and/or ____?
7 Hat
8 Tom 1 - Gate and/or ____?
9 Tom 2 - Gate and/or ____?
10 Tom 3 - Gate and/or ____?
11 SR OH
12 Ride
13 SL OH
14 808 - Comp and/or____?
15 Sequencer - Comp and/or____? (Bass synth and Key synth sounds)
16 Bass DI Clean - *Cranesong Phoenix.
17 Bass DI Dirty - *Cranesong Phoenix.
18 Bass Mic
19 SR GTR 1
20 SR GTR 2
21 SR GTR 3
22 SL GTR 1
23 SL GTR 2
24 SR Vocal
25 Center Vocal RF - * Bomb Factory's BF76 and MCDSP MC2000.
26 SL Vocal
27 Drum Vocal - Comp. (I used a BSS DPR 404 on this with good success using the de-ess to combat cymbal bleed)

Subgroup 1&2 - Drums- *Cranesong Phoenix and Pultec MEQ5.
Subgroup 3&4 - Guitars - *Cranesong Phoenix and Pultec MEQ5.
Subgroup 5&6 - SR&SL Vocal - ?
Subgroup 7&8 - Center and Drum Vocal - ?

L/R - *Cranesong Phoenix and Pultec EQ1P.
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  #2  
Old 06-07-2007, 11:02 PM
Scott Fahy Scott Fahy is offline
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Default Re: Plug in selection

Jon,

Pretty sure Smack is most like the EL8, I will find out tomorrow and confirm. FYI I use Smack on kick and bass.

NOTE: When using Phoenix- sound check and set EQ's with it active. I have heard stories of people who add it in afterwards for some unknown reason.

Scott

Here's a link to suggested settings with the Pultec EQ1P

http://www.uaudio.com/products/softw...ltec/demo.html
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  #3  
Old 06-08-2007, 10:57 AM
Sheldon Radford's Avatar
Sheldon Radford Sheldon Radford is offline
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Default Re: Plug in selection

Hey Jon,

Also check out the Serato plugs. Guys like Rob Scovill, Greg Nelson (Pearl Jam) and Jeff Thomas (Dave Matthews Band) swear by them. The comp in particular is killer, as it features a "true" de-esser (or de-honker, or de-woofer...).

Don't be fooled into thinking these are emulations of old Rane analog gear, because they're not this at all. They are brand new algorithms developed in the past few years by the Rane Digital team, who then partnered with Serato to make the plug-in versions. Full disclosure: I know all of this because I helped develop the hardware versions of these products (the Rane C4 , G4, DEQ 60 and PEQ 55).

Oh - and don't forget to start by trying the built-in channel comps and gates - they're really quite good!

Sheldon
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  #4  
Old 06-09-2007, 06:46 AM
eytan eytan is offline
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Default Re: Plug in selection

Hi Sheldon,

If you still know someone at Rane, ask them to change the description of the G4 to "quad gate" instead of "compressor/limiter". I wonder how long they had this mistake on their web page?
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  #5  
Old 06-09-2007, 06:04 PM
Sheldon Radford's Avatar
Sheldon Radford Sheldon Radford is offline
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Default Re: Plug in selection

Doh - that's a good one. The Rane folks have been made aware of the typo...

Sheldon
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  #6  
Old 06-10-2007, 07:52 PM
Jon Martin Jon Martin is offline
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Location: Ormond Beach, FL.
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Default Re: Plug in selection

How does this look for a starting point? I chose the Drawmer gates because I am comfortable with them and that is what I have in my personal insert rack. I chose the Fairchild 670 Comp for my Center and Drum vocals just for a leveling comp on those subgroups. They are my main $ channels.
Although it looks like a bunch of compression, I'm not a big fan of compressing the hell out of everything, unless I am doing some actual tone shaping with them (Bass DI Dirty for example...)
98% of the time the comps will just tickle over the peaks.

Any other suggestions?

1 Kick 52 - Drawmer Gate and Smack!
2 Kick 91 - Drawmer Gate and Smack!
3 Kick 52 - Drawmer Gate and Smack!
4 Kick 91 - Drawmer Gate and Smack!
5 SN top - Drawmer Gate and Smack!
6 SN bottom - Drawmer Gate and On-board Comp
7 Hat
8 Tom 1 - Drawmer Gate
9 Tom 2 - Drawmer Gate
10 Tom 3 - Drawmer Gate
11 SR OH
12 Ride
13 SL OH
14 808 - On-board Comp and Aphex Big Bottom
15 Sequencer - On-board Comp and Pultec MEQ5 (Bass synth and Key synth sounds)
16 Bass DI Clean - Cranesong Phoenix and Pultec MEQ5
17 Bass DI Dirty - Smack! or Bomb Factory's BF76 and Pultec MEQ5
18 Bass Mic - On-board Comp
19 SR GTR 1 - DigiRack EQ
20 SR GTR 2 - DigiRack EQ
21 SR GTR 3 - DigiRack EQ
22 SL GTR 1 - DigiRack EQ
23 SL GTR 2 - DigiRack EQ
24 SR Vocal - On-board Comp
25 Center Vocal RF - Bomb Factory's BF76 and McDSP MC2000 or Serato Compressor
26 SL Vocal - On-board Comp
27 Drum Vocal - Bomb Factory's BF76 and McDSP MC2000 or Serato Compressor

Subgroup 1&2 - Drums- Cranesong Phoenix and Pultec MEQ5.
Subgroup 3&4 - Guitars - Cranesong Phoenix or Impact and Pultec MEQ5.
Subgroup 5&6 - SR & SL Vocal - Bomb Factory's BF76
Subgroup 7&8 - Center and Drum Vocal - Fairchild 670


L/R - Cranesong Phoenix and Pultec EQP-1A.
Cranesong HEDD or Apogee Big Ben external word clock.
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  #7  
Old 06-11-2007, 04:56 AM
eddiemapp eddiemapp is offline
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Default Re: Plug in selection

I really think you should try out the onboard dynamics first and move on from there as Sheldon mentioned. One thing that turned me off on other digital consoles was the dynamics section. If you didn't like the particular comps and gates a manufacturer had designed you were forced to go outside the console adding additional D/A A/D conversions for each insert. Another reason why the Venue is a major step above since it allows you the flexability to either use the onboard channel dynamics or go the plugin route and choose whatever you like, all while staying inside the console.

Here's a run down of what I've got going on eq and dynamics wise.

Drums: All gating is from the onboard Dynamics section (which allows you the ability to key from any input whether It's another drum or trigger etc.). Kick, Snare, and Toms all have the URS A series eq (API 550b) followed by the Cranesong Phoenix. Overheads, hat, and ride are sent to a subgroup and then compressed with the EMI TG12413.

Bass has the Sansamp plugin, Mcdsp Mc2000 multiband compressor (to help with the occasional string meeting pickup due to low tuning sound) and then the Phoenix.

Guitars are all Eq'd using the URS N-series (Neve 1084)

All other channels are eq'd with the regular channel eq.

Vocals are BF76 and MCdsp Mc2000.

I do have two solo channels using the EMI TG12413, Pultec MEQ5, and Phoenix.

Effects are Eventide reverbs (drums , voclas) and Harmonizer (Vocals), Echo Farm Delay (guitar and vocals) and Revibe (guitars).

One more Phoenix across the Streo Buss and that's about it.

Since you'll be using this console in a festival situation you may want to start off slow and then work your way up from there, since I'm pretty sure there won't be many opportunities to soundcheck. Of course If you can sneak in a few minutes here and there you could record your show and then use virtual soundcheck through headphones and dial in your mix while the other acts are setting up.

I should be around during that time If you have any futher questions.
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  #8  
Old 06-11-2007, 07:31 PM
Jon Martin Jon Martin is offline
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Default Re: Plug in selection

Quote:
I really think you should try out the onboard dynamics first and move on from there as Sheldon mentioned. One thing that turned me off on other digital consoles was the dynamics section. If you didn't like the particular comps and gates a manufacturer had designed you were forced to go outside the console adding additional D/A A/D conversions for each insert. Another reason why the Venue is a major step above since it allows you the flexability to either use the onboard channel dynamics or go the plugin route and choose whatever you like, all while staying inside the console.



Here's a run down of what I've got going on eq and dynamics wise.

Drums: All gating is from the onboard Dynamics section (which allows you the ability to key from any input whether It's another drum or trigger etc.). Kick, Snare, and Toms all have the URS A series eq (API 550b) followed by the Cranesong Phoenix. Overheads, hat, and ride are sent to a subgroup and then compressed with the EMI TG12413.

I will try the onboard gates, like I said, I put down the Drawmer plug ins because I am used to the hardware version and I'll never second guess at the settings.
One of the things I loathed about the PM5D were the onboard gates.

Quote:

Bass has the Sansamp plugin, Mcdsp Mc2000 multiband compressor (to help with the occasional string meeting pickup due to low tuning sound) and then the Phoenix.
I get all that Sansamp and distortion stuff through the Bass DI Dirty line (DI post his pedals)
I like to do all of the compression at the input and ship the Bass straight to the L/R bus, assigned to it's own VCA and to a "Band Master" VCA. Hence the lack of a Bass subgroup on my list.

Quote:

Guitars are all Eq'd using the URS N-series (Neve 1084)
I shall look into them. I listed the DigiRack EQ because they looked to be a good graphical representation of the onboard EQ's.

Quote:

All other channels are eq'd with the regular channel eq.
Ditto.

Quote:
Vocals are BF76 and MCdsp Mc2000.
Thats what I have listed on my $ channels as it is close to my current processing (EL8 and 901II)

Quote:

I do have two solo channels using the EMI TG12413, Pultec MEQ5, and Phoenix.
Guitar solo channels?
I've been trying to talk my guys into getting a couple of Palmer PDI 03s to create a couple of solo channels but I seem to get by just fine with their VCAs.

Quote:

Effects are Eventide reverbs (drums , voclas) and Harmonizer (Vocals), Echo Farm Delay (guitar and vocals) and Revibe (guitars).
Pretty much the same stuff I need. My guys are insisting that we use a TC VoiceWorks for pitch correction. It will be my only outboard hardware unit.

Quote:
One more Phoenix across the Stereo Buss and that's about it.
I listed the Pultec EQP-1A just as a sweetener along with the Phoenix.

Quote:

Since you'll be using this console in a festival situation you may want to start off slow and then work your way up from there, since I'm pretty sure there won't be many opportunities to soundcheck. Of course If you can sneak in a few minutes here and there you could record your show and then use virtual soundcheck through headphones and dial in your mix while the other acts are setting up.
Once you meet me you'll be quick to figure out that I don't like to "start off slow" at anything.
Aside from some of the esoteric EQ and compressor plug ins, what I have listed isn't too far off of what I would have inserted on a XL4 or H3000.

We're doing a week of rehearsals in L.A. and I'm going to try to get a D-Show for that. From the itinerary I got from management it looks like we'll have a day of tour preproduction / sound check in St.Louis.
Don't hold my feet to the fire on that though, I haven't got the whole run down of scheduling yet..

Quote:

I should be around during that time If you have any further questions.
Thanks Eddie, We're on right before you guys every night so I'm sure we'll be seeing a lot of each other.
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