Updating both Mac OS X and Pro Tools - Need Advice Please

[Rockman-Songwriter123]

Hi everyone,

I wanted to ask your advice about doing an update for both Mac OS X and Pro Tools. We all know it can be a daunting task, because of every element that also needs to be udpated (Plugins, VST, Interface firmware, etc).

The only reason I want to do this update is because lately, when trying to access certain websites, I get a message saying "Please update your browser" (I use Safari, on Mac OS X Mojave). However, after doing some research, it turns out I can't update my browser without updating my OS X. Apple seems to have dropped all support for OS X 10.14.5 Mojave.

I currently have the following setup:

iMac Pro (2017 model)
Mac OS X 10.14.5 Mojave
Pro Tools version 2019.6
Apogee Symphony Mk II (not sure about firmware version)

I need to update to the following:

Mac OS X Monterey 12.7.x
Pro Tools (latest version?)
Apogee Symphony firmware (latest version?)

Does anyone here have any recent experience with an update like this? Any advice you can offer before I begin? Is there a particular order in which I should take these steps? Any major pitfalls to avoid (so I don't paint myself into a corner)?

And yes, I did do a Carbon Clone backup of my existing system, just in case.

Thanks everyone.

[K Roche]

Originally Posted by Rockman-Songwriter123

Hi everyone,

I wanted to ask your advice about doing an update for both Mac OS X and Pro Tools. We all know it can be a daunting task, because of every element that also needs to be udpated (Plugins, VST, Interface firmware, etc).

The only reason I want to do this update is because lately, when trying to access certain websites, I get a message saying "Please update your browser" (I use Safari, on Mac OS X Mojave). However, after doing some research, it turns out I can't update my browser without updating my OS X. Apple seems to have dropped all support for OS X 10.14.5 Mojave.

I currently have the following setup:

iMac Pro (2017 model)
Mac OS X 10.14.5 Mojave
Pro Tools version 2019.6
Apogee Symphony Mk II (not sure about firmware version)

I need to update to the following:

Mac OS X Monterey 12.7.x
Pro Tools (latest version?)
Apogee Symphony firmware (latest version?)

Does anyone here have any recent experience with an update like this? Any advice you can offer before I begin? Is there a particular order in which I should take these steps? Any major pitfalls to avoid (so I don't paint myself into a corner)?

And yes, I did do a Carbon Clone backup of my existing system, just in case.

Thanks everyone.

I have not from Mojave but went from Catalina to Ventura

Myself I update OS first, then Interface, then PT

Is there a reason you are not updating to Ventura ? Looks like iMac Pro is supported on Ventura.

I'm running Ventura 13.6.1 and PT 2023.12 on my Intel mac with no issues.

[Darryl Ramm]

If you are only doing this for browser compatibility you might be able to switch to Mozilla ESR (extended support releases) or just ignore warnings that are not associated with actual usability problems. But importantly you are outside the implicit (3 release back) window for security fixes on macOS. And if this Mac is being used to surf the internet you should really be on a currently security supported platform.

The first thing you should be thinking about is upgrading to the new macOS version and installing all new apps and plugins etc. *without* affecting your current install. But yes you should (multiple) good backups of that as well.

If you have enough space on your APFS internal drive, create another volume on the drive and install macOS to that. You run the same installer on your current macOS install as if doing an in-situ update but you point it at the new volume/drive when asked where to install to. Boot off the new volume and install all your apps and plugins. You should always be a reboot away from getting back to your current fully working system.

If there is not enough space on the internal drive get an external SSD (like a Samsung T7 or T9) and install macOS to that drive.

I would not do in-situ updates and do not try to move apps or drivers or plugins using Migration assassin (assistant) install all those from scratch, using the latest compatible installers. You can use migration assistant to move user accounts but I would prefer to move those by hand (creating accounts with the same UID).

Start now downloading all the plugins and app installers, buying any upgrades you need. Maybe create a spreadsheet/checklist for everything you need to install.

I also would be on the latest macOS version possible. Including because it maximizes the support/update life of that macOS release. And Ventura was a pretty good release.

[Rockman-Songwriter123]

Originally Posted by K Roche

I have not from Mojave but went from Catalina to Ventura

Myself I update OS first, then Interface, then PT

Is there a reason you are not updating to Ventura ? Looks like iMac Pro is supported on Ventura.

I'm running Ventura 13.6.1 and PT 2023.12 on my Intel mac with no issues.

Thanks for the input. I guess you're right, I should go for Ventura. I somehow assumed that since Ventura is relatively new'ish, maybe there were still some compatibility issues. But good to know, thanks.

[Rockman-Songwriter123]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

If you are only doing this for browser compatibility you might be able to switch to Mozilla ESR (extended support releases) or just ignore warnings that are not associated with actual usability problems. But importantly you are outside the implicit (3 release back) window for security fixes on macOS. And if this Mac is being used to surf the internet you should really be on a currently security supported platform.

The first thing you should be thinking about is upgrading to the new macOS version and installing all new apps and plugins etc. *without* affecting your current install. But yes you should (multiple) good backups of that as well.

If you have enough space on your APFS internal drive, create another volume on the drive and install macOS to that. You run the same installer on your current macOS install as if doing an in-situ update but you point it at the new volume/drive when asked where to install to. Boot off the new volume and install all your apps and plugins. You should always be a reboot away from getting back to your current fully working system.

If there is not enough space on the internal drive get an external SSD (like a Samsung T7 or T9) and install macOS to that drive.

I would not do in-situ updates and do not try to move apps or drivers or plugins using Migration assassin (assistant) install all those from scratch, using the latest compatible installers. You can use migration assistant to move user accounts but I would prefer to move those by hand (creating accounts with the same UID).

Start now downloading all the plugins and app installers, buying any upgrades you need. Maybe create a spreadsheet/checklist for everything you need to install.

I also would be on the latest macOS version possible. Including because it maximizes the support/update life of that macOS release. And Ventura was a pretty good release.

Thanks Darryl. That's just the kind of reply I find very helpful. I should mention that I'm not knowledgeable about any migration assistants (I haven't done this much). But in any case, since you recommended not using them anyway, it's all good.

And just to clarify, those warnings about "please update your browser" literally prevented me from accessing certain websites (they weren't merely warnings about security). And I'm talking about sites like Wetransfer, or Dropbox (stuff I use for work). I even tried to access Native Instruments to buy a VST, and the window just froze (spinning wheel). Anyway...

I think I'll buy an external SSD drive and install the new OS X on that (I have an SSD dock with a free slot). Thanks for that tip.

[Darryl Ramm]

Yep buying a new SSD is a good way if you are less macOS technical. And the T7/T9 are just so nice, also handy for fast backups in future (buy several)... but don't rely on SSD for powered off long term/archival storage. That's for HDD not SSDs.

Your iMac Pro late 2017 has a T2 security chip so you need to enable booting from an external drive. e.g. see https://support.apple.com/en-us/102522

[Rockman-Songwriter123]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

Yep buying a new SSD is a good way if you are less macOS technical. And the T7/T9 are just so nice, also handy for fast backups in future (buy several)... but don't rely on SSD for powered off long term/archival storage. That's for HDD not SSDs.

Your iMac Pro late 2017 has a T2 security chip so you need to enable booting from an external drive. e.g. see https://support.apple.com/en-us/102522

I appreciate this info. Thanks again!

Do you happen to know if, when I pay the $400 to Avid for the 1 year update plan, and I go ahead and update Pro Tools to the latest version... will I lose my existing (older) license for Pro Tools 2019.6? I guess that's important to know because, if I want to keep my existing setup on my main internal Mac system drive (just in case), it may stop working as soon as I purchase the update for Pro Tools. Hope this question makes sense.

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by Rockman-Songwriter123

Do you happen to know if, when I pay the $400 to Avid for the 1 year update plan, and I go ahead and update Pro Tools to the latest version... will I lose my existing (older) license for Pro Tools 2019.6? I guess that's important to know because, if I want to keep my existing setup on my main internal Mac system drive (just in case), it may stop working as soon as I purchase the update for Pro Tools. Hope this question makes sense.

The perpetual license you get when you update will also activate older versions like 2019.6.

Eventually what you should do is move the new installation to the internal SSD which will be faster than any external SSD, and not prone to being unplugged by accident etc. You can do that by cloning from the external SSD to the internal one, after you clone the internal drive to an external SSD. Or again if you want both around to frequently boot to then look at putting them both on the internal SSD if you have space.

[RobbaDobba]

I was in almost the same situation as you, running Mojave 10.14.6 and PT 2020.12.1 for years on my Intel MBP.

FWIW, I took Darryl's advice a little over a month ago, created a new AFPS volume on my Mac HD, and installed Ventura (in my case 13.5.2) and PT 2023.9 (the latest version at the time). I did not use Migration Assistant, and suggest you don't either. This gave me the ability to keep my stable Mojave system intact and boot into it should I need to.

I haven't really needed to. Pretty much running Ventura ever since. Two days later, Avid released PT 2023.12 and certifies it with the "latest version" of Ventura, so at some point I will likely update to 13.6.3 and PT 2023.12. When I do so, I'll do the OS first, then PT.

What differences have I noticed?

• My MBP runs about 10 degrees warmer in Ventura. I had HyperThreading and Turbo Boost both disabled in Mojave, which kept me around 30-40 degrees Celsius at all/most times. In Ventura, I cannot disable HyperThreading, because when I do Pro Tools crashes on launch. (I haven't figured out why...and frankly have given up trying.) So, I just keep Turbo Boost disabled, and my MBP runs around 40-50 degrees Celsius.

• Pro Tools 2023.9 takes almost a full minute to open...40-45 seconds alone from clicking in the dock to seeing the splash screen. In my old setup, it was maybe 20 seconds total.

• Pro Tools 2023.9 frequently crashes on quit. Don't know why, stopped trying to research it. Doesn't seem to hurt anything.

So, am I loving life in Ventura? Not really. I still feel like Mojave was much more nimble, cooler, and stable. But I likely won't go back.

[Rockman-Songwriter123]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

The perpetual license you get when you update will also activate older versions like 2019.6.

Eventually what you should do is move the new installation to the internal SSD which will be faster than any external SSD, and not prone to being unplugged by accident etc. You can do that by cloning from the external SSD to the internal one, after you clone the internal drive to an external SSD. Or again if you want both around to frequently boot to then look at putting them both on the internal SSD if you have space.

Cool. Thanks Darryl. As of now, that's my plan of attack. I appreciate your input.