Digi - Please Consider EuCon

[audiogeek1]

Utilizing 2 Pro Tools on one Icon is cute but not really horsepower. You can't have both on the surface at the same time, nor create custom layouts. No monitoring capabilities and no snapshots, especially bus assignments, since you can't switch buses on a 192 without hits. Digi is never going to accept Eucon. Just like Digidesign never went a long with a AES31. As a friend of mine once said "One day AES is going to be a giant DIGIDESIGN booth and a couple of mic vendors". If Digi ever committed itself to making a real console, instead of a Fisher Price Icon it would be a great relief to many. But as long as larger format consoles are small potatoes as far as volume sales, I see no incentive for them to attempt building a console that would give us the best of both worlds. Rumers of using the DSP of the Pro Tools system as the core for monitoring have never materialized and as time goes on it seems like it never will. So I will continue to use HUI on a Euphonix to give me the best of both worlds.

I am glad your first post is a bash. And I love how everything is Digidesigns fault and the Icon is a toy. I do not use an Icon. But there are many sucessful post houses that do. It may not be perfect for the multi million dollar picture but what about TV and indie movies.

I work a Euphonix System 5 and the new Super Core everyday. Euphonix protocol is not perfect. It still has issues. I have issues with Euphonix. I have issues with Digi. No product is perfect. Although the way I work today is much better than ten years ago. It is amazing the improvements in speed in the non linear editor etc...

I personally would not buy a Icon because I do not like the idea of all my eggs in one basket. I having a mixer. I like the flexible routing which is the main thing I like about the System 5. I do not use hui all that much because I use the console. I think there are many improvements that need to be made on both ends.

I also do not like nuendo. It does not make sense to me. The layout and functions seem a bit odd to me at times. I think if you like it great. Go for it. For me we have had nothing but problems with it. I work with 2 people who are pro Nuendo and try to justify its shortcomings. I am for PT because I am comfortable with it and very fast at is. They use Nuendo and have Sync issues left and right. I do not generally have any. Their systems crash at least once a day. Mine does not. Should they use PT. No they like Nuendo and feel it is a better platform for them. If I am being handed files from them then I like having PT session files. It is just easier.


Just my thoughts.

Mike

[bryston]

This may be off topic, but sometimes people really don't consider what tools and options are best for them. Digi is not just a workstation. It is a mixer also. They have just chosen not to implement certain features that some find very useful. You can hope to convince them to implement it, or look somewhere else. My company chose to go somewhere else for our everyday post tools. It doesn't have all of PT's features, but has some that digi doesn't. Many feel that if they don't have protools they can't compete. It's a bad assumption to make without serious thought and that mentality will lead to AES being one giant digi booth like someone pointed out.

[funkcity]

As a friend of mine once said "One day AES is going to be a giant DIGIDESIGN booth and a couple of mic vendors".

Hey I think that was me!! Ha!

But really...
Digi's client is Guitar Center not the post world.

The head of the ICON team is an ex-Euphonix exec!

The logic of the Euphonix concept is quite a bit more advanced than anything out there.

That said, a really good implementation of an in-the-box PT system would be killer.
If Digi published their Ethernet protocol it would also be great.
It will never happen.

A TFT screened ICON...this is where the Sys5 and MC Control kick ass. A natural for ICON!
Major Monitor formatting enhancements
Major Video enhancements...For godsake they are owned by AVID!
Lose the mushroom caps
Allow multiple systems and their groupers to freely populate the desktop faders.

If Guitar Center is the client and you are so slammed by Final Cut Pro that you can't even make it to the NAB show then how can you expect them to address the issues being discussed in this thread?

[Chief Technician]

If Guitar Center is the client and you are so slammed by Final Cut Pro that you can't even make it to the NAB show then how can you expect them to address the issues being discussed in this thread?

I haven't read anything official about Digidesign not being at NAB, but since Avid won't be there, you are probably going to be proven correct in 2 months or so.

Avid's CEO left last year and they reported a loss in their most recent earnings report. Coincidence? Doubtful. The only good thing was that of the 100+ layoffs, only nine (9) were not Avid (video) employees.

[Branko]

Can someone explain what is the difference between Icon D-Control and Euphonix MC? What puzzles me is that the mixer is always the same - it's the ProTools doing the job. What is so wrong with Icon? Is that the layout? Faders? Metering? A simple example would be enough to start a valid discussion. As a dubbing mixer, I really do not care about the protocol that translates my fader movements into mix, as long as this protocol doesn't interfere with my intentions. I moved on to D Control from ProControl and the improvement is tremendous. But, still what I like most in ProTools is it's simplicity, automation and stability. ProTools can take a lot of load and people are doing major feature film mixes using it. What is wrong with that?

[airon]

Protools is used for playback mostly, or playback of predubs. Nuendo is basically the same if you're not using EUCON to control everything in it.

The kicker is that you can use the same control surface with a Euphonix DSP core for large format mixing at a reasonable price if you want to. Plus, if I may be so bold, Protools does not offer MADI, an inexpensive and much easier to set up way of getting your audio out and in to a console. I mean, what the hell does Harrison have MADI inputs for ? Certainly not for Digihardware, as you need converter strapped in front of them.

Personally I think EUCON will not happen for Protools, because it hardly has the feature set to support much of what people are doing with it on Nuendo. One could argue that support for EUCON might kick Digis ass in to implementing some of the neat stuff EUCON would make possible.

It's just that they've hardly been making descisions in our favor like that in the past. The central Digidesign product, Protools, hasn't been taken risks with at all.

I'm not holding my breath for Digidesign, so I'm probably going to swap out my homerig MCU for a Euphonix Artist series Command/mix combo, since the front end to a mixing environment can now control many other back ends, and this is the best way.

Sooner or later Digidesign will jump in too, if they can pull off a product strategy that works in a free environment like this. They can be smart and innovative. It's just that they haven't been so in Protools. The back end is simple, used to be very solid, now is reasonably solid, useful, but not overly innovative in helping the user more than 10 years ago.

If I can't get 10-bit fader resolution without using a large format Digi console, and I don't wish to use the lonely Command8 option, there is no option, because Digidesign wants to lock me in to their system.

The Euphonix option is great because of its flexibility, and that's what I intend to use it for on a predubbing and TV mixing rig that has multiple applications installed.

Those surfaces are programmable and adapt, to Protools too. The low to medium range market is so important to them, but if I'm working with more than just Protools, why would I choose an Icon over a Euphonix range of systems now?

[CR Postmixer]

Well said airon. Sad, but true on many points.
And you hit the nail on the head. " The central Digidesign product, Protools, hasn't been taken risks with at all."
I understand the work involved in writing, or if need be rewriting, code. As someone stated earlier, this code may have been written along time ago. Other, newer DAWS, may have a leg up in the ability to " adapt " to 3rd party integration. I'm wondering if Digi might end up being their own HUI. That is, staying in " Digi World " while the world around them evolves?

Users switch DAWS = NO ICON Sales?

Users switch DAWS = 3rd Party Sales?

Call me crazy !!!!!

That means no sales at all for DIGI! Oh wait....... MBOX and LE will drive their RD into the future.

OK that's my only DIGI bash. It's just that with this many views and replies in a week, And NO response from " DIGI" it makes me wonder why they host this forum

[georgia]

yeah know, the whole console thing for EUCON access and other venders access, is not about Digi doing something... Its' about letting other do something. If DIGI simply licensed their Control specs, the manufactures could and probably would, do the rest.

cheers
geo

[bryston]

yeah know, the whole console thing for EUCON access and other venders access, is not about Digi doing something... Its' about letting other do something. If DIGI simply licensed their Control specs, the manufactures could and probably would, do the rest.

cheers
geo

I'd say thats pretty much it in a nut shell.

[CR Postmixer]

Your exactly right. But Digi licensing their specs is about Digi doing something. Something HUGE. In fact something they have never ( or very rarely ) ever done. And I agree that certain others would jump on the chance to be part of that connectivity.