Hey Avid: Apple announced OSX Yosemite today 6/2/2014

[Obsidian Dragon]

Given how Avid still can't seem to figure out how to create an uninstall Protools 10 utility for OSX Mavericks (hence it is not certified or supported), hopefully this will serve as a notice that Apple is releasing another OS soon and it would be a good idea to get on the developers list and get started on working on a version of Protools that can be certified to work with it in a timely manner. If not for Protools 10, then at least for Protools 11. Also the customers would appreciate notification if there are no plans to work on Protools 10 for this new OSX Yosemite version. That way we don't have false hopes.

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by Obsidian Dragon

Given how Avid still can't seem to figure out how to create an uninstall Protools 10 utility for OSX Mavericks (hence it is not certified or supported), hopefully this will serve as a notice that Apple is releasing another OS soon and it would be a good idea to get on the developers list and get started on working on a version of Protools that can be certified to work with it in a timely manner. If not for Protools 10, then at least for Protools 11. Also the customers would appreciate notification if there are no plans to work on Protools 10 for this new OSX Yosemite version. That way we don't have false hopes.

Actually Yosemite would have been available to developers from some time back; they just made public at WWDC a release time. As far as any more development on PT10 I'd say we're not going to see any more than bug fixes and that getting a certified version working on Mavericks or Yosemite is not happening.

I mean you don't see Adobe updating old versions of Photoshop to work on Win 8 or Mavericks do you?

[BrianJArmstrong]

No need to worry. PT 12.2.015.458610 will be officially supported in that OS.

But not PT11... or 10... or anything else. ever.

[Obsidian Dragon]

Originally Posted by musicman691

Actually Yosemite would have been available to developers from some time back; they just made public at WWDC a release time. As far as any more development on PT10 I'd say we're not going to see any more than bug fixes and that getting a certified version working on Mavericks or Yosemite is not happening.

I mean you don't see Adobe updating old versions of Photoshop to work on Win 8 or Mavericks do you?

No. I actually am not expecting Avid to make Protools 10 to work with OSX Yosemite (just like Mavericks). I would just hope that they at least make a statement to the public so there won't be the same kind of uncertainty that exist today. Some are still unfortunately hopeful.

As for the developers having the development version of Yosemite, we all know that Avid is very slow to get work started and very slow to get anything released. It sometimes seems that they don't even know that Apple is coming up with a new release. In the past, they admit that they don't start until a the final public version is released because there are possible last minute changes to any development builds. I'm just suggesting that they be proactive instead of reactive. I worked for decades in software development projects and that is how I would address it, but I'm not working at Avid.

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by musicman691

I mean you don't see Adobe updating old versions of Photoshop to work on Win 8 or Mavericks do you?

I think this is actually rather good analogy. I myself keep using Adobe CS4 stuff because it just works, albeit unsupported. I have no problem if their CS says they cannot help me with my issues, but so far they have been very helpful.

Same goes with PT. If you want to use unsupported config, you need to self-support the system. If that's fine, I can confirm that PT10 works perfectly on Mavericks. It's just that uninstaller doesn't work and things like that, but there's this workaround of clean installing operating system in case you need to uninstall.

[Bruce Paine]

Originally Posted by Obsidian Dragon

As for the developers having the development version of Yosemite, we all know that Avid is very slow to get work started and very slow to get anything released. It sometimes seems that they don't even know that Apple is coming up with a new release. In the past, they admit that they don't start until a the final public version is released because there are possible last minute changes to any development builds.

While there have been longer delays in supporting a new OS in the past, I'd just like to point out that is less the case in recent history...

Mac OS X 10.9 Mavericks release date:
October 22, 2013

Pro Tools 11.0.3 release date, adding support for Mavericks:
November 12, 2013

I certainly don't have any info on Yosemite, which is scheduled according to Apple to be available this fall, but that could be almost half a year away.

I do know from over a decade and a half of my own personal experience that Avid are one of the top tier Apple developers, and get the developer builds as soon as they are available. And engineering begins examining those builds immediately. I also know that Avid engineering communicates on a regular basis with Apple engineering, including in person visits between the 2 companies. Contrary to popular opinion on forums, the 2 companies do work together all the time.

All that said, dev builds do change, and can often change drastically, so when you say that Avid doesn't begin working on testing before the final build, that is not quite correct. Engineering begins looking at and testing with the earliest builds, but generally does not begin the official final qualification test process (which is quite extensive) until the final developer OS build. Otherwise, a major change in the OS at the end could mean that the previous testing would have to be completely redone.

[25ghosts]

Originally Posted by Obsidian Dragon

Given how Avid still can't seem to figure out how to create an uninstall Protools 10 utility for OSX Mavericks (hence it is not certified or supported), hopefully this will serve as a notice that Apple is releasing another OS soon and it would be a good idea to get on the developers list and get started on working on a version of Protools that can be certified to work with it in a timely manner. If not for Protools 10, then at least for Protools 11. Also the customers would appreciate notification if there are no plans to work on Protools 10 for this new OSX Yosemite version. That way we don't have false hopes.

AVID has a bunch of beta testers. And PT is undergoing beta testing PRIOR to release..... I know that because I beta test for PT.

How do you expect AVID to beta test protools if the OS isn't even available to BETA testers ? Or do you assume that all beta testers have an apple developer account...

Without beta testing a software as big as PT, you would be on this forum MUCH more than you already are.

Other manufacturers SHOULD follow in AVIDs footsteps when it comes to beta testing their software. Then they would have less bugs.

Any software has bugs and can never be tested enough but Protools is a VERY stable software.

[Obsidian Dragon]

Originally Posted by Bruce Paine

While there have been longer delays in supporting a new OS in the past, I'd just like to point out that is less the case in recent history...

Mac OS X 10.9 Mavericks release date:
October 22, 2013

Pro Tools 11.0.3 release date, adding support for Mavericks:
November 12, 2013

I certainly don't have any info on Yosemite, which is scheduled according to Apple to be available this fall, but that could be almost half a year away.

I do know from over a decade and a half of my own personal experience that Avid are one of the top tier Apple developers, and get the developer builds as soon as they are available. And engineering begins examining those builds immediately. I also know that Avid engineering communicates on a regular basis with Apple engineering, including in person visits between the 2 companies. Contrary to popular opinion on forums, the 2 companies do work together all the time.

All that said, dev builds do change, and can often change drastically, so when you say that Avid doesn't begin working on testing before the final build, that is not quite correct. Engineering begins looking at and testing with the earliest builds, but generally does not begin the official final qualification test process (which is quite extensive) until the final developer OS build. Otherwise, a major change in the OS at the end could mean that the previous testing would have to be completely redone.

Mac OS X 10.9 Mavericks release date:
October 22, 2013

Pro Tools 10.x.x release date, adding support for Mavericks:
Today is June 3, 2014...Still waiting...

[Obsidian Dragon]

Originally Posted by JFreak

I think this is actually rather good analogy. I myself keep using Adobe CS4 stuff because it just works, albeit unsupported. I have no problem if their CS says they cannot help me with my issues, but so far they have been very helpful.

Same goes with PT. If you want to use unsupported config, you need to self-support the system. If that's fine, I can confirm that PT10 works perfectly on Mavericks. It's just that uninstaller doesn't work and things like that, but there's this workaround of clean installing operating system in case you need to uninstall.

The question is will Avid simply state that they are not going to make Protools 10 certifiable on Mavericks by fixing the uninstall issue. What is so hard about making a simple statement of your intention to fix it or not.

In the example mentioned above by Adobe, I believe they have stated that they are not going to make previous versions of their software compatible with Mavericks (I may be wrong as I don't use their stuff other than the free Adobe Reader).

[Obsidian Dragon]

Originally Posted by 25ghosts

AVID has a bunch of beta testers. And PT is undergoing beta testing PRIOR to release..... I know that because I beta test for PT.

How do you expect AVID to beta test protools if the OS isn't even available to BETA testers ? Or do you assume that all beta testers have an apple developer account...

Without beta testing a software as big as PT, you would be on this forum MUCH more than you already are.

Other manufacturers SHOULD follow in AVIDs footsteps when it comes to beta testing their software. Then they would have less bugs.

Any software has bugs and can never be tested enough but Protools is a VERY stable software.

Great. As a beta tester, did Avid provide you a build with a possible fix for the Protools 10 uninstaller yet? Don't bother answering as I know you are bound by a non disclosure agreement. I'm just wondering.