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  #1  
Old 11-11-2014, 07:04 AM
Meads Meads is offline
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Default Loudness Meter - different readings

I just did a comparison of

NUGEN LM Correct
TC Electronic lm2n
Izotope RX4
Waves WLM Plus

measuring a 83 minute feature in 2.0.

While the measuring of integrated loudness and true peak are matching overall, there seems to be some confusion between momentary and short term loudness across those plugins, and loudness range shows different results as well.

I attatched screenshots of the results to this post.

Does anyone have an explanation for this? Especially for the short term loudness?
Several TV stations in Germany have different specs for the max. short term loudness, and it's kind of unsettling that the Nugen measures 4 LU less than the TC for example.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Waves WLM Plus.jpg (50.7 KB, 0 views)
File Type: png TC lm2n.png (50.0 KB, 0 views)
File Type: png Nugen LM Correct.png (15.6 KB, 0 views)
File Type: png Izotope RX4.png (12.6 KB, 0 views)
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  #2  
Old 11-11-2014, 08:15 AM
Basstian Basstian is offline
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Default Re: Loudness Meter - different readings

All of the stations I have dealt with so far(ARD, ZDF, RTL, RTL2, Vox, Kabel1, Sat1, ProSieben, EinsPlus, ZDFNeo, NTV) only cared for the integrated and range values. Everything else was never checked at all.

Though Nugen and GrimmLevelOne measure exactly the same here.
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Old 11-11-2014, 09:09 AM
Meads Meads is offline
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Default Re: Loudness Meter - different readings

While that may be true I still like to meet the specs required with the mixes I deliver.
And in order to do that I have to be able to rely on those readings, which I obviously cannot. Or am I the only one experiencing discrepancies?

So far none of my mixes for ZDF, Arte and NBC have been rejected either, and I used Nugen for those. So I'll stick to it I guess, even though I like TC and Izotope better.
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Old 11-11-2014, 09:22 AM
8dB.co.uk 8dB.co.uk is offline
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Default Re: Loudness Meter - different readings

Yeah, I think that the short term is there to help you, rather than be part of a delivery specification. Certainly here in the UK they seem more concerned with the integrated and range measurements.
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Old 11-11-2014, 09:24 AM
8dB.co.uk 8dB.co.uk is offline
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Default Re: Loudness Meter - different readings

And by the way, PPMUlator XL is often overlooked - it does EBU R128 and ATSC loudness, despite having a misleading product name. Good value for money as well.
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Old 11-11-2014, 09:26 AM
Basstian Basstian is offline
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Default Re: Loudness Meter - different readings

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8dB.co.uk View Post
Yeah, I think that the short term is there to help you, rather than be part of a delivery specification. Certainly here in the UK they seem more concerned with the integrated and range measurements.
I am pretty shire this is true for germany as well. Everytime I asked if I have to meet the Short Term Specs which normally doesn't help the dynamics of the program I was told that the short term is only for commercials and does not apply for the long programmparts, but that might be different for Arte.
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Old 11-11-2014, 09:30 AM
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minister minister is offline
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Default Re: Loudness Meter - different readings

I don't have a solid technical explanation, perhaps someone who knows more will chime in.

But...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meads View Post
..... confusion between momentary and short term loudness across those plugins, and loudness range shows different results as well.
...
Several TV stations in Germany have different specs for the max. short term loudness,
I have never seen a Spec that said anything about a short term loudness REQUIREMENT. Maybe a suggestion, but not a requirement. Is it true that in Germany there is a max short term requirement?

If not, then, why do you care?
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Old 11-11-2014, 09:32 AM
8dB.co.uk 8dB.co.uk is offline
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Default Re: Loudness Meter - different readings

If the station has a requirement for a maximum short term loudness, that would then start to limit the loudness range, which could make the programme both dull to listen to, and possibly not a wide enough loudness range for other broadcasters. Seems strange also that they'd be deviating from the R128 spec.
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Old 11-11-2014, 09:50 AM
Meads Meads is offline
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Default Re: Loudness Meter - different readings

Quote:
Originally Posted by minister View Post
If not, then, why do you care?
Because a calibrated and compliant meter should measure the same values as a different one, that is calibrated and compliant to the same standard.

LRA readings are different as well. Not by much, though. But still I find that to be a little strange.
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  #10  
Old 11-11-2014, 09:52 AM
8dB.co.uk 8dB.co.uk is offline
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Default Re: Loudness Meter - different readings

You can get different readings with successive analysis of the same piece, using the same software, let alone multiple brands.

This is one of the reasons there is a tolerance built into most delivery specs.
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