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  #1  
Old 11-25-2009, 11:42 AM
scar97 scar97 is offline
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Exclamation Important Cloning Poll. Could lose your Plugs Authorizations if you update!

I am taking a poll here. In another thread we are experimenting on some other issues and I want to get some feedback from anyone who is imaging vs cloning.

I used to image everything until I tried the 3GB switch. I had a hard crash that I could not recover from (my fault). I am using acronis true image work station 9 and acronis disk director for partitioning.

Here is the situation. I used the rescue disk and still could not get it to install an image. Big problem as I have done this many times and now it has given me a false feeling of security. Thank goodness I always make a clone of the most stable system and I got it back up. After I got the clone drive up I made a backup clone and put it away for redundancy.

Now comes the issue I am trying to get the poll on. Since I had to do a bunch of work I decided to check and see what updates I needed on WINDOWS only since SP3. I downloaded all of them except IE8 (known issue). The only reason I did this was for security purposes because I still get authorizations on that PC but no surfing or DUC then I disable the network connection. After updating I lost all access to several plugs.

To make a long story short I had to put the backup cloned HD disk back in and boot up and everything was back to normal.

It seems like if I update anything windows (.net framework, security updates, etc..Just the bare bones updates) it corrupts the shortcuts to plugs like RMX, Trillogy, or anything that has a large library on a separate drive with a shortcut from the system drive. I hope I explained that right.

I know how to rework all of the shortcuts but after updating it no longer let me "point" to those libraries" and the plug in's no longer worked unless I put the backup cloned drive back in and booted from it without the updates.

We are thinking that the ID's of the hard drives are now being captured for piracy protection. I don't know that is why I am asking you about your experiences. If this is the case I would not suggest updating Windows XP past sp3 or at least in my case my cloned drives do not work.

Last of all I will NEVER EVER use an image again. I would rather pay for 10 hard drives and clone them than go through that again. Plus as I have found out from some very intelligent users on this forum they ONLY used cloned drives and it is about 2-5 minutes to swap out and you are running again after a hard drive failure (system drive).

I have now cloned my system drive x 2 my data drive and my storage drives. I feel very secure in this method now and it also gives me the ability to learn more and try different things where I was uncomfortable in doing so in the past.

If this has been discussed before sorry but for you newbies BE AWARE!!

Just my experience in the past week.

Your thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 11-25-2009, 01:23 PM
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Default Re: Important Cloning Poll. Could lose your Plugs Authorizations if you update!

Hi Scar,

It's always a good idea to bring the concept of cloning and backup policies to the forefront. Too many times we find people searching for ways to retrieve their systems or data.

Here at the studio we keep both clones and images. Images are fine for the quick replacement of a lost or corrupted file or plug-in when the issue is clear. On the other hand, whae faced with a true catastrophe images can sometimes be as troublesome as rebuilding from scratch.

The issue of authorizations and how they relate to clones is, (as you have pointed out), a curiosity. I have grown to appreciate ilok based authorizations mostly because of this. I noticed that Trilian holds it's authorization on a clone for me but Trilogy does not. Both coming from Specrasonics causes me to wonder why. Sound Forge and CD architect also require new authorizations.

More and more I am shying away from non-ilok plug-ins for just this reason. I have been using Norton Ghost. Most of the pros here seem to be on Acronis True Image but this issue seems to be consistent with both. I hope someone here has stumbled across a solution to these issues. Our turnaround time installing a clone will be greatly reduced without the concern over authorizations. With Trilian taking the place of Trilogy I can go to work right away but I do lose Sound Forge and CD architect.

Back in the FAT32 days we could select an option in Ghost that would move the hard drive ID to the new drive, but that has now been removed.

Anyhow, this thread is a good idea and hopefully it will bring more on this subject to light.
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  #3  
Old 11-25-2009, 02:00 PM
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Default Re: Important Cloning Poll. Could lose your Plugs Authorizations if you update!

let me say first of all that i have not tested this utility but i knew there was a way to change the vol id. for those that wanna test here is the utility... VOLUMEID

so one can run CHKDSK to find what the volume serial id for any disk. then format the bkup hdd. after format run CHKDSK utility on bkup hdd to get vol id. then run VOLUMEID on bkup hdd to change vol id to dup the original hdd you wish to clone. then use your clonin' program. MAYBE this will allow ALL auths to go with drive...MAYBE... again i have not tested this. just passin' on the info
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  #4  
Old 11-25-2009, 03:23 PM
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Default Re: Important Cloning Poll. Could lose your Plugs Authorizations if you update!

)_____(

It's us again

So like I said in the other, I've never had that issue before; I mostly use Acronis but I also use Casper which I use the last time I cloned but I hadn't plugged the clone up since then; I may try it 1 day when I get a sec to see if the authorization is needed but, never had that issue before myself...
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  #5  
Old 11-25-2009, 03:38 PM
danander11 danander11 is offline
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Default Re: Important Cloning Poll. Could lose your Plugs Authorizations if you update!

I have to say that I have only ever imaged with Acronis, and never had an issue.

That being said however, I usually revert back to a clean install of PT then re-load everything anyways.. (house cleaning at the same time), so I'm not sure that my comments apply.

I will give a +1 to Tom though.. I would much rather have an iLok license than the challenge/response method. My recording PC never goes online so it's kind of a pain in the butt.

Peace!.
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  #6  
Old 11-25-2009, 03:51 PM
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mykhal c mykhal c is offline
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Default Re: Important Cloning Poll. Could lose your Plugs Authorizations if you update!

again...all plugs carry auths except one...RMX (RTAS). the VST version has no issues carryin' the auth.
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  #7  
Old 11-25-2009, 04:34 PM
scar97 scar97 is offline
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Default Re: Important Cloning Poll. Could lose your Plugs Authorizations if you update!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mykhal c View Post
again...all plugs carry auths except one...RMX (RTAS). the VST version has no issues carryin' the auth.
Do they? That may be because you are transfering your ID to the other hard drive. I think my point is the "security updates" or any other udates MAY be a way for them to stay under the radar to perform anti-piracy problems across the board. Let me say I am all for anit-theft as I purchase everything but when you do run legit (don't know how to crack and don't care to deal with the jail time or the problems associated with it) I think we should be informed that this may happen.

I am also 100% for Ilok if that solves the problem but what happens when Sound Forge, CD Archetect, Spectrasonics, Reason, Ableton Live, Plugorama etc decide to tie you down to the single hard drive you install them on. I don't have a problem re-authorizing I have a problem with the time it takes to get it done if you run into problems with a hot 10 side session and players on the floor. This is the reason for my post.

What I am saying is clone your drive, Boot from it and run some sessions THEN put it away before you do anything else. Then you can do updates and test before you do anything else. That way you have a drop dead drive that you can plug in a run as long as you stay within the satble system that you have and HAVE NOT CHANGED.

I know everyone's PC is different and while this may be some isolated issues I think it has some validity to it in some form.

Mykhal said it best in the other forum..Keep your clone that works, verify it as a last resort, then make all the images you want but remember where your fail safe drive is and keep in mind where it was when you did it. Can you go backwards in the middle of a session? Maybe not.

Tom also mentioned on the other "marathon thread" that he has not done any windows updates since SP3 and did it from a CD not the download on the web site. That is what I had to go back to to get my system stable again. After that I cloned 4 drives and ID's had nothing to do with anything. Everything worked on all 4 including all authorizations (INCLUDING SF AND CD ARCHITECT). Keep in mind I am using acronis, he is using ghost and Mykhal is using Casper (that i am going to buy right after I finish typing. If you read about Casper it is really cool how it clones. It is a drag and drop you partition program instead of a reboot like Acronis (I think).

Just do some trials over the next few weeks and lets find out. I would hate for someone to have (like I said) a false feeling of security when updating a CS from Digi or an upgrade from some other VI and want to go back, only to find they are screwed.

I live and learn..JM Opinion
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  #8  
Old 11-25-2009, 04:54 PM
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Default Re: Important Cloning Poll. Could lose your Plugs Authorizations if you update!

Well, this is good news Sound Forge and CDA both held their auth info for you. I haven't used Acronis but I will sure give it a try, Casper too, thanks to Mykhal for that. This is what the DUC was like before it all started falling apart with the new "antagonist members" some months ago. I hope this is the start of some actual teamwork. I miss those days.


EDIT: Oh, I'll get heat for that... Did I say antagonist? I meant intelligent.
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  #9  
Old 11-25-2009, 05:01 PM
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Keybeeetsss Keybeeetsss is offline
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Default Re: Important Cloning Poll. Could lose your Plugs Authorizations if you update!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TOM@METRO View Post
This is what the DUC was like before it all started falling apart with the new "antagonist members" some months ago. I hope this is the start of some actual teamwork. I miss those days.


EDIT: Oh, I'll get heat for that... Did I say antagonist? I meant intelligent.
__________________
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('we' must start using pronouns)
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  #10  
Old 11-25-2009, 05:30 PM
scar97 scar97 is offline
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Default Re: Important Cloning Poll. Could lose your Plugs Authorizations if you update!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TOM@METRO View Post
Well, this is good news Sound Forge and CDA both held their auth info for you. I haven't used Acronis but I will sure give it a try, Casper too, thanks to Mykhal for that.
I do need to qualify one statement Tom. I don't know if this was the reason I did not have to reauthorize or not.

I cloned the stable 180GB sata system drive to another 80GB sata drive. Then the 180 became unstable so I recloned the 180 with the 80 I cloned from the 180. I hope that was understandable.

Now with that happening would it have transfered the same HD I.D throughout the process? It may be that Acronis transfered the ID????

Then I cloned 3 other 80 GB sata drives from the 80 GB sata I made from the 180 before it was hosed.

Just trying to get to the bottom of this issue and not leave any details out.
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