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  #11  
Old 02-01-2008, 04:41 PM
Craig F Craig F is offline
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Default Re: Digi - Please Consider EuCon

If you held a gun to my head and forced me to place a bet
I would bet that Avid buys Euphonix over Digi's implementation EuCon
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  #12  
Old 02-01-2008, 04:48 PM
manis manis is offline
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Default Re: Digi - Please Consider EuCon

why does digi so feverishy refuse to support there loyal (probably because if you cant use PT no one will take you seriously anyway) user base.

are they going broke.., doubtful

no handles, ect.., that are par for the course on every other DAW. as a novice compared to most here.., i barely understand the problems on this thread.., what i do understand is i have seen this sort of thing a lot ,

there are basic tools on other apps have that PT users have been CRYING out for for years??

I dont expect digi to change.., they have had plenty of time and they are getting real good at exuses. I have heard some good ones on this forum.., like 'we have been looking into that.'

i love PTs simplicity and bussing.., but i am still wondering why i have to use PT when I can do the same, more.., on cubase, STP, nuendo ect.., at uni i have had to pretend i had done some work on PT when in actual fact it was done on STP because the uni was too tight to buy plugins and PT is too tight to have said plugins as part of the app. how can a major post app not have any decent noise reduction.., sure EQ is fine but there are times one needs a broad stroke.

what im asking is.., is it a matter of time before small production houses and such begin to use other apps because there is more to offer in both hardware and software in other apps. Will the PT monoopoly begins to crumble. no because its 'the industry standard' at times one wonders why?? (at times I said!)

at times i wonder..., is it more 'cool' to say 'i use protools.' than the practicalities of its functionality, is this the pop star mentality/fantasy. (??) protools is a star!

dont get me wrong.., i love protools..,

but if i need to go to another app..,i do.., which is frequently.

M:)
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  #13  
Old 02-01-2008, 04:56 PM
CR Postmixer CR Postmixer is offline
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Default Re: Digi - Please Consider EuCon

Imagine if there were no forum here. No sharing of information freely amongst us users. How many times have you gotten by on the advice or help from other users. Not one mixer to another thinking " Yea I know the answer to that but screw you, I'm more important if I keep it all to myself " Now imagine if the bigger guys ( manufacturers ) opened up to that thinking. Sure there are some things that need to be kept proprietary but communication isn't one of them. All I want is for Digi and Euphonix to
" communicate " with one another. There are enough sales to go around.
Oh and by the way I don't think AVID will be buying anyone. But I wouldn't be surprised if Apple bought everyone
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  #14  
Old 02-01-2008, 05:58 PM
postprosound postprosound is offline
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Default Re: Digi - Please Consider EuCon

ya know, I really have to agree here about the implementation of EuCon into Pro Tools. I have taken a really hard look at nuendo, and EuCon has been a major reason.
I think that there is a lot of us here that have worked in some form of retail. In a way, the whole post production business, and the music business as well, is a type of service related industry. Avid/digidesign are suppliers to that industry, and thus depend on the service business.
That being said, how many of us would hang a sign on our doors that could turn away potential business? We wouldn't. Sure, some of us might have found certain niches that we have fallen into, but, the bills have to be paid. My point is that Avid/digi can't limit themselves and in the end turn people away.
I realize that Avid/digi sells hardware, and in opening the doors to others they might shoot themselves in the foot. But wouldn't making your products as attainable, and attractive to as many potential clients, offer the best chance of selling more? (just as a point, apple too is a hardware and software company. when is the last time you have seen logic or final cut work on dell? Yet they play well with others) and If you see anybody go away from pro tools, often times it's the fact that they don't play well with others. They make great products; i love them, they are the standard. But they need to really step up.
Here's two examples:
1) Avid and HD monitoring. If you using the industry standard N.L editor Avid (either express with a mojo or media composer with the adrenaline) you can not watch true HD on your client monitor. I take that back, you can.... sort of. in either case, you have to use a direct out on one of your video cards to do it... and unplug your high dollar hardware. Kinda a pain to say the very least. you can't output projects onto HDCam through your hardware.... which means then you have to render, a job previously shouldered by your hardware accelerator, which you just unplugged to monitor or record. now, keep in mind, the national broadcast switch-over to HD is only one year away... it takes time for your average avid customer to buy and implement changes. I'm sure that they are working on something, but it's one year away!!!... but when you consider that there is a little company called black magic, (perhaps you have heard of it) that has been offering solutions to this for some time, but not to avid owners, it is frustrating, to say the least.

2) Dub stages. Icons are really cool. Really, really cool. (and now in fashionable black, just in time for spring!) Now go to a dub stage for a feature. Not many are done on Icons. they just don't have the horsepower to do the job. (Sure they did Star Wars on an Icon, but they had 3 strapped together, with a fourth recording. (and a soundmaster ion helping out). ) The VAST majority of films are mixed on the large format consoles. Digi knows this... Now as an example, many FX editors/ supervisors pre-mx their tracks going into boards, with some effects (such as reverb) applied... if a mixer doesn't like the sound of a certain verb or other plug, wouldn't it just be all the easier if they could just use their console to delve into the pro tools session and fix the verb, or other plugin? my point is that the more control the better. EuCon would be a welcome addition to most mixers arsenals.


perhaps there are better examples out there for the points that i, and others, are making. My point is that I really like both avid and pro tools. they are great products. they are the industry standard in many ways. But, they are 'hamstringing' their own customers. Remember, you need to keep US, your customers happy. if we are happy, we gladly spend more money. EuCon is a perfect example. perhaps Digi has their own version of EuCon waiting in the wings. Great, I'll buy it. Maybe they will make something like the Artist series. cool, i'm on board. But considering the great minds that work at Avid building products, and the size of the company, they should be on the front edge of technology, making us lust after their products (and buying them), not lagging way behind making us look elsewhere.

Of course, that's just my opinion, i could be wrong.
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  #15  
Old 02-01-2008, 06:37 PM
cmaynes cmaynes is offline
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Default Re: Digi - Please Consider EuCon

If EUCON was supported by the leading companies for re-recording consoles it might make sense- maybe Euphonix should get Harrison and AMS to adopt it- that would make a much stronger case for the issue... However this would not be in Euphonix best interest...

Right now- it is just supporting one company. Outside of post (which is a small market) there is little call for the sort of implementation previously mentioned.
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  #16  
Old 02-01-2008, 09:52 PM
TheHenchman TheHenchman is offline
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Default Re: Digi - Please Consider EuCon

Quote:

i love PTs simplicity and bussing..
You're joking, right?

It's bussing is the worst.
There's is no way to automate bus sends, without using the auxes.
Every simple, automated digital console has a grid based bussing system. Somethign severely lacking in PT's.

There's no quick and simple way to see what is being sent, where.
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  #17  
Old 02-01-2008, 10:44 PM
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dr sound dr sound is offline
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Default Re: Digi - Please Consider EuCon

Quote:
y
2) Dub stages. Icons are really cool. Really, really cool. (and now in fashionable black, just in time for spring!) Now go to a dub stage for a feature. Not many are done on Icons. they just don't have the horsepower to do the job. (Sure they did Star Wars on an Icon, but they had 3 strapped together, with a fourth recording. (and a soundmaster ion helping out). ) The VAST majority of films are mixed on the large format consoles. Digi knows this... Now as an example, many FX editors/ supervisors pre-mx their tracks going into boards, with some effects (such as reverb) applied... if a mixer doesn't like the sound of a certain verb or other plug, wouldn't it just be all the easier if they could just use their console to delve into the pro tools session and fix the verb, or other plugin? my point is that the more control the better. EuCon would be a welcome addition to most mixers arsenals.
SNIP
Of course, that's just my opinion, i could be wrong.
They do have the horsepower. Now with the new 7.4 you can hook up 2 systems at each Mixer postion. PLENTY OF POWER!!

Now, how about signing your posts so DIGI can see who is asking for them for a request ?
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  #18  
Old 02-01-2008, 11:56 PM
CR Postmixer CR Postmixer is offline
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Default Re: Digi - Please Consider EuCon

From Forbes.com:


"Though sales and cash flow were strong, we are disappointed with the lower-than-expected earnings performance and need to improve our profitability," said Gary Greenfield, chief executive of the company.

Greenfield said that Avid is in the process of transforming into an efficient and customer-focused organization and it’s taking a “long-term view” on enhancing shareholder value.

Keywords here: customer-focused organization, long-term view

If you want to stay relevant than you should embrace the emerging technologies, not shun them. It doesn't hurt to listen to your customers either. Mr. Greenfield, I have just handed you a scenario that could help expand your user base, and at the same time satisfy ( if not be praised by ) a good percentage of your current customers. If it is truly a downside risk for Avid/Digidesign to support the EuCon protocol, then please, PLEASE chime in here and explain. I am not above accepting a reasonable explanation to this request. Again, I am a long time user ( Audiovision was Great ) and I am not here to bash. I simply would like to see a dialogue evolve, and maybe a solution created for those of us that support your products but at the same time use others.
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  #19  
Old 02-02-2008, 01:08 AM
cmaynes cmaynes is offline
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Default Re: Digi - Please Consider EuCon

C Roberts-

You should really go through the WB Sound Dept- WB has installed a few ICONS now, and they have an avenue of communication to Digi-

WB has Euphonix Boards? I thought they just had AMS there...

Euphonix is still a junior player in the Dub Stage universe (installation wise- I know their stuff is nicely appointed, so no need to get ruffled) so again, since EUCON is only used by them, I would think it to be a not so profitable endeavor for Digi to invest time into. But if enough people ask, I sure it will be considered- If they teamed with AMS and Harrison though, that would cover a lot of ground.
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  #20  
Old 02-02-2008, 01:18 AM
manis manis is offline
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Default Re: Digi - Please Consider EuCon

Quote:

i love PTs simplicity and bussing..



You're joking, right?

It's bussing is the worst.
There's is no way to automate bus sends, without using the auxes.
Every simple, automated digital console has a grid based bussing system. Somethign severely lacking in PT's.

There's no quick and simple way to see what is being sent, where.


well no??? i didnt mean them as the same thing because they are in the same sentence.., my mistake!! i wouldnt have known that anyway.., if i want to automate bussing i use other apps.., i thought it a short coming of mine in not understanding PT.., but thanks for clearing that up

it supports what i said.., what is par for the course in most DAWS is out of the race in ProTools

i love protools simplicity.., something like cubase studio has more functionality.., but somehow protools seems more straight forward, a certain simplicity.
(despite doing the best evr sound desighn at my uni, and you know know nothing that is in the real world) .., i do the best i can. sometimes its a little fearful to post here, everyone is great but i feel i might put my foot in my mouth

Manis
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