Dolby LM100 emulation?

[bigbadhenchman]

Did you read the letter that came with the requirements from Discovery?
The idea didnt come from some broadcast tech!!!
This is Discovery Communicatons making a true effort to keep levels between programs EQUAL.

Im all for it.

Who knows. Maybe this will stop producers from using bargain basement studios, run by people who have no clue what they are doing.
I've herad docs, where people guys have mixed the show the way they do music, and cranked the compressors on everythign. And it sounded horrible.

[CD Productions]

I knew I was going to get burnt on this. And how useful is the LM100 in accomplishing what they are after? Give me a peak level for the show/ DX/ MX and I will stick to them. An over all average level for a 1hour show tells you nothing and fixes no problems as has already been established in this thread. I've worked closely with a few networks, and yes it is the broadcast engineers who set these parameters. Did you think it comes down from the president of the network? Yes, its great for a network to strive for better audio quality, telling someone what equipment to use, especially if it is inappropriate equipment or specs is not the way to do it. Hiring decent mixers at a decent wage, and giving them time to do their work is the way to do it.

[TVPostSound]

Peaks dont reveal relative loudness!!!

Anyway, you cant fight them on this. If it fails the LM100 test you need to remix it, and personally cover the cost for a Digibeta layback, Closed Captioning Digibeta layback or clone, and a new DA88 stem master.

[CD Productions]

I'm aware of that. My original point was not that I'm some renegade mixer breaking the rules, but to put Ric more at ease about needing a particular peice of equipment to meet spec. An LM100 is not going to create a good even mix. Nor will it help an inexperienced or bad mixer turn in an airable product. An experienced mixer, with tools they know and a good set of ears is what is required. And hey, so far, nothing failed QC.
P.S. Of course whether Discovery is right or wrong, you've got me thinking...maybe I'll ask the post house I'm working for to rent one.

[CD Productions]

O.K. last posting on this. Yeah its a slow Sunday.
"Experienced engineers generally use their ears to balance the different elements of a program and to set the overall loudness, while watching the PPM or VU meter to make sure that signal peaks aren’t clipping, but this doesn’t exactly give a precise measurement of the actual dialog. Enter the Dolby LM100." Quoted from Surround pro online. I owe Ric and the DUC an appology for posting without doing the research first. I just read the LM100 spec sheets and the set up PDF. Neat box. Dorroughs and Paz don't do what this box does. And yes I'm going to recomend renting one. Lucky to dodge the bullet so far, but I'd rather not count on luck. Thanks

[ricren]

A brief note on this issue:

Not been able to grab a LM100, we finally had to sent one episode.
Today I'm reading the QC report: LM100= -27 db. Just right! (They ask for a reading between -28 to -26.)
Anyway I feel this is just a good dose of luck, so we are trying to negociate with the local Dolby representative to get one unit at a decent price but I see no progress on that.
Could someone point me to a company that actually sells Dolby gear at goood prices in the US territory?

By the way, i case someone finds it usefull, these were the setup used:
We mixed with the monitor chain adjusted to 79 db (BSky pink,RS meter, C scale,slow).
Spectrafoo average meters reading around -25 on dialog.
Peaks limited to -10 dbfs.
tks everybody for your help discussing this issue.

cheers

Ric

[SBP]

Personally I'm all for an agreed perceived level for broadcast. Its a shame to have technology that is capable of a wide dynamic range and then only use 5dB. Meters like the LM100 will in my opinion allow a mix to be done without look ahead limiters being put on the final output.

However its a shame that the tool for measuring this level is tied to one manufacture.

Its also a shame that as many of us are moving into work-flows that are more "in the box" the meter hasn't been developed so that it can be a plugin.

my 2 cents

[TVPostSound]

The LM100 at the required Discovery Channel spec allows 15 dBs of dynamic range not 5.

Its also NOT a meter, but a QC tool.

[SBP]

Sorry maybe I wasn't clear.

Many shows at the moment have the perceived level between shows as being quite different because current QC requirements are set as a number of samples over at set threshold which does not take into consideration the frequency (or annoyance factor) of the sound.

Some of us use a fast limiter to catch any quick transients that might push us over. These fast limiters sometimes in my opinion get a little over worked. Resulting in a lower than ideal dynamic range for the show.

The LM100 is at least an attempt to give a measurement of the perceived loudness of a sound track. Its worked well balancing out cinema trailers here in Aus.

If a broadcaster specs a LEQ level it maybe that we can create a more dynamic mix and still have the sound tracks perceived loudness (on air) as high as a show which uses lots of compression. I like the sound of this -we can mix with dynamics and the show still gets broadcast at a good level.

What I am not so excited about is the fact that only one manufacture is providing the measurement tool and that the tool is a box. Have broadcasters in the past said you can only mix using sifam VUs?

If you are mixing well then the LEQ is basically a level to master thing. Its a good thing that broadcasters are trying to fix what audiences have seen as a problem -the need to go for the remote between breaks and shows. I'm not so fussed about the monopoly on the yard stick though.

Still if its what the client wants .......


Cheers

[Matt82au]

quick question, was just checking out the Neyrinck SoundCode plug on the news page. one of the screenshots shown at http://akmedia.digidesign.com/news/i...r-lg_11034.jpg shows a big thing saying DIALOG LEVEL -27. Not knowing much about surround mixing (mostly stereo tvc's....) and not been hit with this requirment yet, i wouldnt know, but could this plug be used as a LM100 emulator? If so, i imagine it would make alot of your lives a lot easier. (but im probably wrong)

cheers, Matt