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  #11  
Old 05-25-2018, 07:01 AM
quadraphonics quadraphonics is offline
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Default Re: Pro Subharmonic Issues

There are two other issues with this plug in:

The older version can cause delay compensation issues. For me, I feed this using a send feeding an AUX. The AUX feeds into the main Sound Effects Sub Bus. If I don't feed something into the AUX, the final bounce of the Sound Effects Sub Bus comes back 1 FR early.

If you have all of the parameters enabled on the plug, but don't write to them - the Frequency 'Range' parameter can change after closing the session and reopening.



Quote:
Originally Posted by epm View Post
Hey,

Just upgraded to 2018.4, newest avid plugin installer pack, and I'm experiencing a discrepancy in levels on tracks with Pro Subharmonic after the update. Varying degrees of differences depending on the setting, but especially with the "Distort" drive mode. (10-12 db hotter on new version) If i roll back my pro subharmonic to the older version, my sessions play back correctly, but with the new aax plug all my tracks with pro subharmonic are off.

I submitted a case to avid, and I'm currently running the old aaxplug but I don't know which one is "right". I only have the 2 versions to test. Anyone have different versions I can compare?

The newest, where I'm seeing the issue is: 18.1.0.1441, and the only older one I have, that I had installed, and am rolled back to now is 12.1.0.615.

Tested on various systems, HDX / HD Native / Fully native. All 2018.4, OSX 10.12.6. Some Mac Pro 5,1, Trashcan, Mac Mini, Macbook Pro.
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  #12  
Old 05-25-2018, 08:21 AM
Frank Kruse Frank Kruse is offline
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Default Re: Pro Subharmonic Issues

Maybe a good moment to go back to Lowender.
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  #13  
Old 05-25-2018, 09:28 AM
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reichman reichman is offline
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Default Re: Pro Subharmonic Issues

Quote:
If you have all of the parameters enabled on the plug, but don't write to them - the Frequency 'Range' parameter can change after closing the session and reopening.
This is interesting. I always do a 'write to all enabled' on every track in the pre-roll so everything has at least one node. But even without nodes, the recall w/o auto should be right. It was bugs like this that made me not trust the SoundToys stuff.
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  #14  
Old 05-30-2018, 02:28 AM
elicious elicious is offline
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Default Re: Pro Subharmonic Issues

PT HD 2018.1
OS X 10.12.6
ProSub 12.1.0.615

Also getting the changing frequency range parameter issue.
As well as other values changing back to default
after having been adjusted.
On individual tracks have resorted to committing,
but tough to do while working on a mix if it's on the buss…
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  #15  
Old 08-02-2018, 02:57 AM
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Farhoof Farhoof is offline
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Default Re: Pro Subharmonic Issues

Any updates on this matter?
I haven't seen any new installers or any mention on it by Avid.
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  #16  
Old 08-02-2018, 03:48 AM
Frank Kruse Frank Kruse is offline
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Default Re: Pro Subharmonic Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farhoof View Post
Any updates on this matter?
I haven't seen any new installers or any mention on it by Avid.
Well I hope they don't "fix" it back to where is was because that would mean that any session mixed with the current plugin would break again.

In a way it's not fixable unless a new version would playback super-old and new at the same level. Otherwise any fix other than that would either break current sessions or old ones.

I'd rather have them keep it as it is and not "break" it back to where it used to be.

Or create a version that plays back old and new correctly.

F.
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  #17  
Old 08-10-2018, 07:30 AM
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Farhoof Farhoof is offline
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Default Re: Pro Subharmonic Issues

It seems the culprit of this issue is a bug in the subharmonic version 12.1.
Whenever you make a setting with the input frequency set to anything OTHER than 40-60Hz, e.g. 120-180Hz, and you deactivate -> activate the plugin, or even close and reopen the session(!), the input range is set to 40-60Hz. The input range highlight does NOT show this, the 120-180 range is still highlighted orange, but the center graphic response actually shows the 40-60 range instead of your selected 120-180Hz range.
When you manually click the 120-180Hz range it switches to the intended setting.
This 40-60Hz input frequency greatly decreases the output level (and/or character) depending on the input sound.

Having just an automation breakpoint in the session does not fix this. The automation needs to switch range and switch back again to read the proper setting. This also means you'll always have to play through some switching automation before playback (or manually click after opening a session).
Opening a session at some random point into the timeline will result in a bugged output, until it hits some input range automation.

Workaround and compatibility with older 12.1 sessions:
When you have used a single 'set and forget' setting which is now playing way too hard (actually correct) using the 12.7 version, you can set the input frequency range to 40-60Hz for the entire session to recreate a similar response you had before updating to version 12.7. Please note this output is not _exactly_ the same as the bugged 12.1 version. When testing using a sine wave I had to add about 4dB to the output trim (or the drive). Though when using a pink noise no added gain was needed, just setting the input to 40-60Hz resulted in a similar output as the bugged 12.1 subharmonic.

This issue has been fixed using Pro Subharmonic version 12.7 (tested on Protools HD 12.8.3). I will soon test PT 2018.7 and the latest (18.1?) Pro Subharmonic.

So yes the 12.7 version can sound louder, but it's actually the correct level.

Also, we need release notes when plugin updates are released

Last edited by Farhoof; 08-13-2018 at 02:08 AM.
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  #18  
Old 08-10-2018, 01:49 PM
Norad155 Norad155 is offline
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Default Re: Pro Subharmonic Issues

Wow, great find!

... and an answer to the "which one is "correct"" question.

Thanks so much for your research and thorough explanation!
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  #19  
Old 08-13-2018, 03:52 AM
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Farhoof Farhoof is offline
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Default Re: Pro Subharmonic Issues


My god Pro Subharmonic 2018.1 is a mess. Each time I press play I can get a different output. (Protools Ultimate 2018.7). Nobody at Avid is beta testing? I've found this after 20 seconds...

/edit
Same thing happening with 12.7. Could be a PT 2018.7 issue.
So far, when set to DSP it seems to work fine. When set to native (same as offline bounce i guess) the output may vary each time I press play. This is most notable at the Resonant 1 drive setting (full wet mix). Using a 100Hz sine.

Last edited by Farhoof; 08-13-2018 at 04:19 AM.
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  #20  
Old 08-13-2018, 06:54 AM
epm epm is offline
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Default Re: Pro Subharmonic Issues

Wow, thanks for digging in Farhoof, I haven't done any testing on 2018.7 yet, still sticking with 2018.4 here, and as per Avid's advice, i'm running Pro SubHarmonic 12.1.

FYI, this is the response I got from Avid in June when I brought the bug to their attention.

Quote:
Just wanted to follow up on this case. I have already logged the bug and it is under investigation. Please let me know if the case can be closed. There is no estimated timeline for a resolution, but you can reference this case should you need to follow up on it. In the meantime please stick with version 12.1 until there is some development on the bug. You will definitely be informed once this issue has been addressed.
Haven't heard anything since. This is really troubling because my facility is creating hundreds of sessions using Pro SubHarmonic on a surround LFE bus that aren't going to recall if this changes.

I think i'm just going to ditch it for now and just use something else until this shakes out.
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