Using Avalon VT737-SP with Venue systems

[grant2b]

Hi There,

Hoping you have some info, or can at least point me in the right direction.
I'm going out on tour with an artist shortly who uses an Avalon VT737-SP on vocals. This is fine with analog consoles but on digital consoles it seems a bit more tricky.
Unfortunately we don't have the budget to be using the same console every night but on most nights we will have either a Profile, Midas Pro 1/2/6, M7CL, CL5.

Can someone please explain exactly how this needs to be connected as far as bypassing the internal preamp and using as an insert as most of these consoles are running CAT5 from stage.

Have looked over and over the internet and not found anything that answers my questions sufficiently.

Is AD conversion an issue? Can i attenuate the input gain from the HA to crank up the Avalon? What workarounds have you guys found?

I'm not new to FOH, but this is the first time i've been faced with external mic pre's and digital boards.

Thanks!

[Brent Lind]

Best case scenario on Venue would probably be to run it inline and then into a local line-level input. Could be very challenging with certain snake scenarios... Worst option would be running as an insert - then you are adding two stages of conversion.

I don't want to sound unhelpful, but I've been there and my personal advice is to investigate plugin solutions that could make the artist happy. Just so much hassle avoided and greater consistency. I realize that won't solve your problem on every mixing platform. Just as an anecdote, I worked for an artist that absolutely "had" to have an external pre and a distressor on his vocal. Then in rehearsal I forced him to do a blind taste test against my favorite plugin chain and he never went back to hardware. Years ago, everybody sweetened the digital chain with a little outboard, but its my opinion that digital processing has come far enough to make it more trouble than its worth, unless maybe in a budget-unlimited scenario...

[Mike496]

You might need additional AD with AES. 737 to an external AD converter into an AES or other digital IO on the console/stage box. Would have to set the level on stage unless you have analog tie lines to FOH...

[Kristo Kotkas]

Originally Posted by Brent Lind

Best case scenario on Venue would probably be to run it inline and then into a local line-level input. Could be very challenging with certain snake scenarios... Worst option would be running as an insert - then you are adding two stages of conversion.

I don't want to sound unhelpful, but I've been there and my personal advice is to investigate plugin solutions that could make the artist happy. Just so much hassle avoided and greater consistency. I realize that won't solve your problem on every mixing platform. Just as an anecdote, I worked for an artist that absolutely "had" to have an external pre and a distressor on his vocal. Then in rehearsal I forced him to do a blind taste test against my favorite plugin chain and he never went back to hardware. Years ago, everybody sweetened the digital chain with a little outboard, but its my opinion that digital processing has come far enough to make it more trouble than its worth, unless maybe in a budget-unlimited scenario...

+1

And yes, the only way to properly use it as a pre you would need to send the analog signal over copper to FOH and amp it with your Avalon and send the line signal from it to desk. Any other way would not be "using Avalon pre" as preamplification would actually happen elsewhere.

[sterka]

Originally Posted by Mike496

You might need additional AD with AES. 737 to an external AD converter into an AES or other digital IO on the console/stage box. Would have to set the level on stage unless you have analog tie lines to FOH...

AES does seem to make some sense. Almost all of the consoles you mentioned have at least one stereo AES input on the surface or FOH rack. In most cases even if using a digital snake there will be AES at FOH. Not sure if there are syncing issues though, for some of the desks that don't have SRC on the AES inputs may require something extra.

Jason

[Bill Denton]

There is a simpler way...

On the 737, connect cables to the analog in and out jacks.

Take the other end of the cables and route them into whatever pile of cables is handy, preferably in a dark area.

No need to actually connect the cables to anything other than the 737...if the artist can see the preamp, connect a monitor feed or something to the input to make the meter bounce.

Really...who can tell what preamp is being used in a "live" setting, especially in hip-hop, which both the request and the specific piece of equipment would tend to indicate...

[Mike496]

Any word on how you decided to setup the 737?

[Mike496]

I don't know why I didn't think of this before, but if you have a good wireless system you could place the receiver(s) at FOH, plug the output into the external mic pre and then patch that output into a line level input. Assuming the venues are of applicable size.