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  #221  
Old 10-14-2019, 06:24 AM
jasonkalman jasonkalman is offline
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Default Re: Are we not due an update??!!

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Originally Posted by Blinkofani View Post
Thanks for the reply but a Gearslutz thread is hardly real inside knowledge of the business

Anyway, I don’t want to go any further than this as my post is way off topic but in that thread, that I didn’t read the full 4 pages, it didn’t take long that it was mostly posts by Apple haters and the question isn’t really answered in the end. How many copies does Apple need to sell before they’re break even with R&D? All copies sold after that number is 100% profit so I’m not so sure Logic is a “loss leader”.

Like a lot people here I’m sure, I know people who bought Logic but are not that much in Audio production, but because it’s 200$ they bought it because they needed to work on audio and didn’t want to bother with GarageBand. If you lower the price of your product so much that you sell a crazy number of copies, you’ll end up making a good profit, if we’re talking software and not hardware goods.

The one sure thing in the advantage of Apple is they have the funds upfront to finance the R&D so if profit comes later on during the product’s life, they can live with it without loosing sleep. Which could be different when talking about a company whose main revenue is the lowered priced product.

Blink
Blink,
True, Gearslutz is hardly gospel, but it is a good source since many pros and insiders use the sight. Hit or miss though, I agree. But back to your original question, does Apple make a profit off Logic Pro X. I think the answer is yes, based off the amount of computers they sell for those that want to use Logic Pro X. The DAW is the reason to buy the expensive computer for many pro audio users. I purchased my original Mac Pro back in 2009 for that very reason and have been a Mac user ever since, so I guess I'm an example of this. I use Pro Tools and Logic Pro X equally. I like Pro Tools better for certain things (tracking audio and editing) and Logic Pro for others (VIs, midi).
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  #222  
Old 10-14-2019, 07:11 AM
Blinkofani Blinkofani is offline
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Default Re: Are we not due an update??!!

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Originally Posted by jasonkalman View Post
Blink,
True, Gearslutz is hardly gospel, but it is a good source since many pros and insiders use the sight. Hit or miss though, I agree. But back to your original question, does Apple make a profit off Logic Pro X. I think the answer is yes, based off the amount of computers they sell for those that want to use Logic Pro X. The DAW is the reason to buy the expensive computer for many pro audio users. I purchased my original Mac Pro back in 2009 for that very reason and have been a Mac user ever since, so I guess I'm an example of this. I use Pro Tools and Logic Pro X equally. I like Pro Tools better for certain things (tracking audio and editing) and Logic Pro for others (VIs, midi).
Agreed, obviously for every copy of Logic Apple sells, they sold at least one Mac computer to run it before Logic could be installed on it. Even in 2009, Logic was not 200$ but at 499$USD for all the bundle Logic Studio came with, it was a no-brainer for a Mac user, current or “thinking-about-buying-Mac” customer, and the start of the price fall that ended up at 200$.

And it might be the influencial factor that made all software being more affordable today(maybe too much) and put so much pressure on devs that they need to go the damn subscription route to stay alive and pay the monthly rent and employees...

Blink
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  #223  
Old 10-14-2019, 07:36 AM
michael c michael c is offline
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Default Re: Are we not due an update??!!

At this point, I wish the next updated version would finally put PT on par with most other DAWS as far as working with VIs. I'm fine with the midi stuff features but wish the stupid memory issues would work more efficiently like Logic Pro. I DON"T want to work with 2 programs like everyone suggests. You can blame it on Kontakt, NI, etc but most other DAWs don't have the same issues PT does...
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  #224  
Old 10-14-2019, 07:36 AM
jasonkalman jasonkalman is offline
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Default Re: Are we not due an update??!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blinkofani View Post
Agreed, obviously for every copy of Logic Apple sells, they sold at least one Mac computer to run it before Logic could be installed on it. Even in 2009, Logic was not 200$ but at 499$USD for all the bundle Logic Studio came with, it was a no-brainer for a Mac user, current or “thinking-about-buying-Mac” customer, and the start of the price fall that ended up at 200$.

And it might be the influencial factor that made all software being more affordable today(maybe too much) and put so much pressure on devs that they need to go the damn subscription route to stay alive and pay the monthly rent and employees...

Blink
Blink,
So Apple's undercutting their DAW's cost could have led to Avid's subscription model in order to stay afloat? Interesting hypothesis. I think the real challenge for Avid will be the next generation of hardware that comes out some time in the 2020s. Once other companies can match or beat HDX, it will be even harder for Avid to get people to stick with them. Luckily their product is very mature and popular, so hopefully they can stay competitive. Even though many of us criticize Avid, we all want them to be successful, while at the same time offering their customer a cost benefit reason to both upgrade their hardware (once there is new hardware) and stay current with their subscription plan. Something they have not done up to this point.

The great thing about open market competition is eventually Avid will have to comply with what the market dictates. If the subscription model doesn't pan out, they'll have to figure out another strategy, rather than raising the cost for those that do decide to stay to make up for the losses of those that left. Avid is at the point right now where they are at a crossroads I think. Either offer a compelling reason to stay in the ecosystem or see more customers jump ship.
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  #225  
Old 10-14-2019, 07:48 AM
jscomposer jscomposer is offline
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Default Re: Are we not due an update??!!

Is Logic cheap or are others overpriced?

Reaper does what other DAWs do, minus the sound libraries, for $60. How much is Logic's library worth? I'd wager not much.

How much are the sounds you get with Pro Tools worth? LOLZ

Then there's depreciation. $299 Waves plugins are usually $29 nowadays, and I assume they still profit. Even their new plugins are often "discounted" to $29.

I was seriously considering Logic, now that PT Standard annual updates are $199. Far more bang for the buck. But having already invested in 3rd party libraries, Reaper made sense as my secondary, VI-focused DAW.
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  #226  
Old 10-14-2019, 09:34 AM
john1192 john1192 is offline
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Default Re: Are we not due an update??!!

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Originally Posted by jscomposer View Post
Is Logic cheap or are others overpriced?

Reaper does what other DAWs do, minus the sound libraries, for $60. How much is Logic's library worth? I'd wager not much.

How much are the sounds you get with Pro Tools worth? LOLZ

Then there's depreciation. $299 Waves plugins are usually $29 nowadays, and I assume they still profit. Even their new plugins are often "discounted" to $29.

I was seriously considering Logic, now that PT Standard annual updates are $199. Far more bang for the buck. But having already invested in 3rd party libraries, Reaper made sense as my secondary, VI-focused DAW.
IMHO ..

PT is way overpriced for what you get for your money .. Ultimate - yeah way too much - they could have sold way more copies with a competitive price and the crippled / not a perfect transfer back and forth from ultimate to standard

Cubase is pretty damn good for price, but i personally do not like the interface - too much moving around to get things done .. Nuendo - the ultimate of steinberg .. great program but again too much moving around .. maybe with a big control surface it makes sense ..

Logic - lots of bang for 200 bones .. are the included sounds good enough !!! sure, you can mash them up and turn them into other things .. really good starting points for composers !! is logic easy and perfect .. it has some quirky things that take more Mousing around to get through ..

Reaper - again big bang for the buck .. but can be intimidating and tough to have break throughs when learning ... Kenny Goioa (sorry for spelling Kenny) has some amazing videos .. i went through most of them but it was just too different for me as an old guy to learn .. i need things to work be fairly easy and be stable .. i want to get things done not TECH out everything all the Time !! i have Reaper and once in awhile open it when someone says Reaper does this cleaner or better .. so i check and most times it doe snot perform better than what i am comparing it to .. Honest Answer - i am not a Master of Reaper but following Kenny's vids i feel like am doing things correctly .. just makes my head hurt thinking that hard to even Setup a session so i do not need to Tech during sessions .. again honest .. it is a brilliant program man !! really nice job !!

Pro Tools .. doing high level demo session with some big names this week and PT .. well, what is the deal with Waveforms being written during recording that look like you are giving a Haircut to all your tracks .. then stop record and hit play and the waveforms change size !! try explaning that to JOe RockStar !!! haha

ok, monday morning Qb'ing done !!

cheers Go Bills !!! john
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  #227  
Old 10-14-2019, 11:32 AM
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off the wall off the wall is offline
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Default Re: Are we not due an update??!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by john1192 View Post
IMHO ..

... Pro Tools .. doing high level demo session with some big names this week and PT .. well, what is the deal with Waveforms being written during recording that look like you are giving a Haircut to all your tracks .. then stop record and hit play and the waveforms change size !! try explaning that to JOe RockStar !!! haha

ok, monday morning Qb'ing done !!

cheers Go Bills !!! john
Never seen that waveform thing you mention and all I do is "High Level" sessions.
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  #228  
Old 10-14-2019, 12:08 PM
Rectifried Rectifried is offline
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Default Re: Are we not due an update??!!

current speced Machine PT, and all plugins which arent many.. bs PT hangs at the end of bounce randomly quits stc
yes Lets TAKe akll the plugins and Puuuuut them back.. But you know what? thats a week of testing. for what?
this crap should work.. 20+ years, this is so so weak
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  #229  
Old 10-14-2019, 03:30 PM
BLUElight AudioMedia BLUElight AudioMedia is offline
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Default Re: Are we not due an update??!!

So - in the past twelve months (since 10/11/2018) we have now received one actual update (2019.5) and three "bug fix" updates. I'm an Ultimate user (as are many of you) and pay $400/year to stay current, it would be great to at least have some communication from Avid to let us know what we can expect coming down the pipe in return for our hard-earned money. I know it's a common complaint around here but it's frustrating to say the least.
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  #230  
Old 10-14-2019, 04:05 PM
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Bob L Bob L is offline
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Default Re: Are we not due an update??!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by john1192 View Post
<snip>
Pro Tools .. doing high level demo session with some big names this week and PT .. well, what is the deal with Waveforms being written during recording that look like you are giving a Haircut to all your tracks .. then stop record and hit play and the waveforms change size !! try explaning that to JOe RockStar !!! haha

ok, monday morning Qb'ing done !!

cheers Go Bills !!! john
John,
If you reference our discussion at http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=377424 you'll be reminded how to avoid an explanation to Joe.
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