Mac? Unstable?

[link]

Folks,

Is there a Mac user group where I can get the following highly annoying problem resolved? Or can some one here please help?

(Digi, LWilliam, shaggy, Chris Coleman and all the very helpful usual suspects!!)

After a PTLE workout, my Mac consistently doesn't let me shut it down or restart it from the 'Special' menu in Finder. I've posted about this before, and people here advised several options including removing my USB hub, zaping and rebuilding the desktop etc. Didn't work. I called Mac support, (90 days), and they had me re-install the entire OS. Didn't work!

Is this a Mac OS 9 bug? Or does Digi have something to do with it?

HELP!!!

[lwilliam]

What's the config? (G3/4?, add'l PCI cards, etc). I had some weirdnesses until I upgraded my SCSI card to "OS9 compatible" flash ROM.

I never had that problem with OS9 and haven't had it with 9.0.4. My Mac runs for 18 hours a day on the weekends.



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LW

[link]

LWilliam! Thanks for your speedy reply! Trust you to be up working this late!

Ok, here's my config, and also, I think I've zoned in closer on the probem:

G4,
450Mhz,
256MB RAM,
10gig plus 28gig dedicated Seagate Barracuda audio drive.
Also, I have a Sony Spressa CDRW and a Belkin 4-port powered USB Hub bringing input from my Opcode 96 midiport etc.

Which leads me to the discovery!

I turned off the Mac and tried a simple experiment. I unplugged the USB power plug from the USB adapter, turned on the Mac, and was able to shut down as expected from the Finder 'special' menu.

So now the Mac is off.

I then plugged in the power plug into the USB adapter, and believe it or not, THE MAC TURNED ON!! It was like yaah, sure, uufda!! The USB power was somehow able to turn the Mac on!! No wonder I have problems shutting down!

So, I guess I'm back to look for a freakin' powered USB adapter that won't force my Mac to stay on!!

Any suggetions for a USB adapter that won't treat me this way??

[lwilliam]

Oh, boy...USB has been my major headache, also. I tried two different brands of USB hubs (4-port each) with my midi interface (MTP A/V) and I tried them with my Waves dongle. One was a no-name brand, and the other was well-known. They were BOTH problematic - I even bought a brand that was recommended by both Griffin and by Waves - and that they had been using successfully on G3s...but nope, na-da, they worked "sometimes" on my G4. I got real good and quick at deleting digisetup, DAE prefs, and Waves RTAS prefs .

I have since sworn off ALL USB hubs and have learned to live with the two ports on the Mac (plus the keyboard one). I now rarely have problems. I have a similar config (G4/AGP/400/256MB).

You may not like my recommendation, but here it is: Dump the USB hub. Plug your midi interface directly into the Mac. Plug your keyboard into the other USB port on the Mac. Then, when you need to burn a CD, plug the CDRW into the keyboard USB port.

Hopefully, you don't also have an iMate or we may be in trouble. If you do, then post again and I'll get the brand names/models of the two hubs I tried. They at least didn't cause the problems you've described. There may also be another solution using a separate extension set for CDR burning which would exclude the iMate driver.

Also, double-check that the wall-wart power supply that came with the hub matches the voltage/amperage range specified for the hub. It could be something as simple as a mis-matched power supply.

Good Luck!



------------------
LW

[Chris Coleman]

Are there any UNpowered USB hubs? I don't know since I'm still working with ADB serial connections with my upgraded beige G3 (no USB headaches here!)
I use a simple hardware ADB switchbox to run my MOTU Microexpress, printer, and Palm Pilot Hot Sync cradle into my printer port. No problems there- anything like that for USB? Anyhow- I'm glad you nixed the problem, but I hope you find your solution to the multi-USB problem!

[link]

Thanks, Chris, and LWilliam.

Y'know, I went out and bought a 'better' USB Hub. (Also Belkin, just not a 'generic' model). And it was a bit more stable. However, I was still able to turn the Mac on by plugging in a USB device into the Hub when the Mac was in one of its 'unstable' moments. (Meaning I couldn't turn it off and then I finally did it from the hardware). So I think that's just a thing with these USB devices that won't go away.

The disturbing thing here is that I think this problem may have something to do with PTLE afterall, because it only happens (Mac not shutting down), AFTER I have turned a PTLE session on.

At first I thought it may have something to do with DAE/PTLE memory, but I was wrong, cos I'm using all the Digi recommended settings.
So I guess I'm stuck. Maybe I'll just have to live with this. I sure wish Digi guys would join in on this one.

Thanks again, guys.


[This message has been edited by link (edited April 29, 2000).]

[*e*]

Lwilliam, I'm using the Macally 7 port USB hub is it one of the ones you mentioned? needless to say i too suffer from the USBs. will try to pair down to only the apple keyboard and MTP-AV USB. by the way are you having usb problems w MTP? if i have to plug my Zip,floppy, extra mouse & keyboards than this whole usb thing is a farce ahh?? many thanx e

[coaster]

this may seem like a dumb question, but

why are you shutting your machine down?
cold booting a machine is one of the worst things you can do to it. this is when the majority of problems occur. if you don't believe me, try it on a unix machine during a verbose boot. watch the calls. i believe macs boot similiar, but the calls are not visible to the user.
perhaps you have noticed that it is much much faster to reboot than it is to cold boot; sometimes by as much as minutes.

my machine runs 24hours a day unless it needs hardware adjustment. i don't even spin down the internal drive. just sleep it. i realise this is not an option for 001 users. that is a drag. maybe digi will fix it (: you could just sleep the monitor.

i do, however, spin down my external drives. i wonder if anyone has comments good or bad about spinning down your externals. i was taught to never spin your drives down, but they haven't cr8pped out on me yet.
even at both places i work the computers are on 24/7, both pc and mac, so it's not just my crazy idea.
what do you think?

[shaggy]

Coaster. Actually sleep works fine with 8.6 on the Yosemite models. Which begs the question. Link. Mac OS 9.0.4?

It is good to know that the Opcode USB drivers are still good with system 9.

I have a MIDIport 32- couldn't wait til the 96. Link. Where did you get it?

[lwilliam]

I'm looking at my two USB hubs now:

1. no-name 4-port; it has a model UH-144 on it.

2. UMAX SOHO USB04

They both cost about the same and work about the same. ($40 or so).

I think that USB has been vastly over-rated, although the OS 9.0.4 has some new USB drivers that may help things...

I've just upgraded from 1.43 to 1.44 FreeMidi. We'll see if that helps or messes things up, although I'm having absolutely no problems with the MTP AV now that it's plugged into the Mac directly. It works with PTLE, Cubase, and even Band-in-a-Box (don't laugh. It's a great tool to keep your soloing chops up).


[This message has been edited by lwilliam (edited April 30, 2000).]