Volume of bounced file not as loud as original

[jackbensonite]

Hi... I had given up on this thread after a day of refreshing for more responses, wish I had checked back yesterday. Thank you both for your replies.

I have a confession to make... I have made a dumb mistake. But I still have questions.

First of all, I have indeed been using "mono(summed)" for bouncing.

When I went in to get a screenshot with the master fader for you, shtik, I noticed the master fader is sitting at -2.5dB. That explains essentially my problem.

But a new question emerges. Because it turns out that there was only a difference of 2dB between each of the clips and it's bounced child (I determined this by phase inversion test). Which would mean that the volume is actually being boosted by .5dB when I bounce.

So I ran a new test to check this, with the master fader set properly at zero, here is a screenshot with fader and bounce dialogue...



After bouncing and importing six times, I have now, including the original, seven generations of clips...



The last generation clip I have copied and pasted on the first track next to the original clip, so it can be clearly seen that waveform is bigger than the original.

When I lower the last generation's volume by 3dB, and invert it, it cancels with the original. Which means we have indeed increased by .5dB per bounce.

So I guess my questions are... Is that normal? How would you guys bounce a mono clip? I figured mono summed is the most logical way to do it. Would it make more sense to do a multiple mono bounce?

Thank you so much for your responses.

[StudioRhythm]

Summing to mono will end up boosting a center panned track, although the .5dB you're getting seems odd -- with a 2.5dB pan law it should be more like a 3.5dB boost, but perhaps there's some extra compensation going on when you choose the summed mono option...? I'm not sure, because in around 15 years of using pro tools, I've never used the mono summed option except maybe once by accident. :) Will try to look at it sometime soon and see how it's working here on 11, .5dB seems like an odd number to end up with unless choosing the summed mono option reduces it by 3dB, which it might....

To answer your question as to how to bounce a mono clip, I guess the question I'd have for you first is, what are you trying to accomplish exactly? If your goal is to end up with another copy of your original clip, I'd skip bouncing entirely and use the clip export command (under the clips/regions menu.) Or you could even just copy it through the finder.

If you bounce, you're not just bouncing a clip or region, you're bouncing a mix through the pro tools mixer, where you're subject to processing, pan law...etc, which is all stuff you don't want if you just want another copy of your file (although with all settings flat another copy of the audio is what you'll end up with, but the level won't be the same, subject to pan law.) If you do want your mixer settings, panning, effects...etc, then it doesn't really matter whether the level is the same as the original, since there is no original, just the mix. :) Make sense?

[jackbensonite]

Hi, thanks for the response.

I just ran another test and the .5dB thing is definitely the case.

You have a good point regarding, if one is exporting a mix, there being no "original". However, it still could cause a critical issue. If I make a mix, and the sound is almost peaking, but not quite, in a part, or parts, and I bounce it, the new clip will have clipping. So it just means I guess one has to be careful and check closely the loud parts of a bounced clip. I just ran a test and that's what happened.

As far as what I'm trying to accomplish... Let's say I have a little musical piece, five tracks, all mono clips (or some could be stereo) and I want a mono wav file of the mix that I can import into Final Cut and use for a soundtrack, or put into Nero and make a cd, or something. Maybe someday I'll do a John Mellecamp who recently put out an album entirely in mono just to be old school. The only options I have for bouncing are "Mono(summed)", "Multiple mono", and "Stereo Interleaved". I don't seem to have a "clip export" command or "clips/regions" menu on this thing. I guess the most logical thing to do in this situation would be to mixdown the tracks to a single mono track and then just grab the file in Finder? What would you do if you needed a mono file of a mix?

Thanks for the help!

[StudioRhythm]

If you're trying to make a mono mix, make sure you've got a mono output path available in your IO setup, and assign everything to that output (ie A1 instead of A1-2...etc.) Then when you bounce, select that mono output (A1) and there will be no pan law or mono summing issues to worry about. There's no sense running a mono mix through stereo paths if you don't need them, it just creates issues.

If you need to use a stereo path to monitor through both speakers as you work, then just pan everything center, use the A1-2 outputs (or whatever) and bounce to multiple mono files. Then pick your favorite side, left or right, and delete the other. If you sum both sides to mono, you get a level bump depending on pan law, and you don't want that.

Or if you want both mono and stereo versions, I'd do the stereo mix first, then convert that to mono (checking to make sure you won't get clipping, and reducing volume first if you would.) I don't personally do file conversions within PT, I use Sample Manager by Audiofile Engineering for that so I can make multiple alternate format versions at once in the background while working on the next song in PT, but there's really no reason not to do it in PT except for workflow.

I forget exactly what the command for export is called back in PT6 (export selected regions as files?), but it's definitely there. It's in the regions menu at the right hand side of the edit screen (click the arrow at the lower right of the edit window to reveal the regions menu, then click the menu for options.) The keyboard shortcut is Command-Shift-K.

[jackbensonite]

Hi StudioRhythm, sorry for the late reply. Took me a bit to digest your comment and try some things based on it.

You have given me a much better understanding of mono. I'm really happy we had this discussion, it will change the way I work with mono from now on. (in fact I've saved your comment for future reference in my notes)

And you're right I forgot about the menu on the right, the clips/regions menu, I do have that.

Anyway, I apologize for this late reply. I appreciate you explaining everything. This has seriously helped me. Thank you! :)

[StudioRhythm]

You're very welcome, glad that was helpful!