In need for Pro Tools advice.....

[Vedderman]

Hello everyone, I'm about to jump into the PT dimension but ever since I found this forum (as well as pro people) I've become a little scared about the idea of buying Pro Tools, so I'd like to talk to an experienced user, someone usin a fully expanded rig....please contact me at [email protected]
Forever thankful, Vedderman

[Peter Steinbach]

Hi Vedderman-
Don't let this forum scare you. People rarely post messages here when everything is working perfectly! I believe that most Pro Tools users are very happy with thier setup. Of course, there are always going to be problems, especially in systems that are based around a PC, but all problems have a solution. Besides, thats what this forum is for!
SPEND!! SPEND!! SPEND!!
-p

[PDupre]

Vedderman: Same thing happened to me. I was really excited about getting into PT and then I started reading this forum and got concerned. I posted a similar message and many of the folks that complained the loudest when put under fire said the they wouldn't trade PT for anything. The major complaints are money related as far as I can see. Folks don't like paying for upgrades. They feel that Digi gets folks in the upgrade mill and there is no end in site.

I believe that this mentality exists because people are thinking of PT as a music product like a keyboard when it is really a piece of software. Try upgrading your accounting package for free and see what happens.

I was very surprised to find that Digi will actually buy back product when you upgrade. For example, you can trade in your 001 for a TDM system. They really do try to provide a migration path for people.

After extensive investigation, I am going to spend a ridiculous amount of money on PT. It does everything I want it to do and then some.

Now if I could just choose a set of monitors...

[Vedderman]

Thanks Dupre and Peter, now as a first step I'll be using PT for editing tracks and automating them, at the moment I have 32 tracks of ADATs XT20 so I'guess I'll buy 2 ADAT Bridges and Motor Mix Control Surfaces, but I'm really concerned about a few topics I've read here and at some other places:

1- The quality of the 888s, what's the parameter of meassure when people say they sound bad?
How bad?......are they better than ADATs converters?
2- The "destructive" plug in processing.....using plug ins does really hurt the audio signal?
3- The latency and phase (these 2 are new to me)....does that go away if you use plenty of Farm Cards?
4- I'd like to discuss my studio's way of working and needs in order to come up with a set up ....who wants to volunteer?

If you or someone else could help me clear up these doubts I'll be a lot more secure about the whole thing......
Thank a lot!

[Rams Boy]

Vedderman,
1. Quality of the 888s. I understand the difference in the Apogee AD8000 and the 888s. Regardless the 888s sound great. You won't be dissappointed, especially coming from ADATs. I operated an ADAT studio for years and switching to ProTools helped not only in speed and convenience, but in quality as well. My clients would ALL agree. The complaint about the 888s would have to be from the standpoint of the Apogee sounding REALLY GREAT. So if you have to have sound of the Apogee, you might complain about the 888s. But the 888s are still a step up from alot of other gear.
2. Plug-ins don't have to hurt the audio signal as much as change it. Okay, maybe scientifically they hurt the signal but technically so does using outboard gear in the analog world, or going through a bay instead of direct. The point is, your using the plug-ins to change the signal, so go by your ears. I wouldn't use the plug-ins to simply change the gain, but to create an effect.
3. I have not experienced any latency in my system. I only have a 2 card system.

[666]

Pro Tools is:
freedom
ready for your creativity
customisable

and the new 5.1 should sound better than the older versions (i never heard it).


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somewhere in the planet

[Peter Steinbach]

Regarding the latency and phase issues:
Whenever you use an aux send, a bus, or a plug-in, you will experience a small amount of delay (latency) of your track. This amount varies, depending on what type of plug in is used, and how many. Here are a few quick examples of latency...these are all Waves plug-ins.

C1 gate = 3 samples
Q10 EQ = 3 samples
Rennisance Compressor = 67 samples

OK, so that would be a good example of plug ins that you may use on a vocal track. That added up to 73 samples which would be a delay of about 1.5 ms (at 44.1k) You could compensate for that in several ways which I wont get into for now. I work in post-production, and dont really worry about that little amount on a dialogue track.
You can get phase problems when you apply a plug-in on only one channnel of a stereo track, (I cant imagine why anyone would do THAT) or if, say you took your vocal track, created an aux send, used a plug in such as Lexiverb, and had the wet/dry mix at 50% wet/50% dry. The 50% of the signal that is dry will be delayed from the original. No problem...set the mix to 100% wet.
Here's another scenario: You recorded a drum kit with mics an all the individual drums, and also had room mics. Sometimes you may want to compress the room mics, which would create a delay of 343 samples (7ms) using the Waves C1 comp/gate. Of course, you already had a bit of latency merely by having the room mics further away from the individual mics, roughly 1ms per foot. Using this compressor would be the same as if the room mics were placed 7 feet further away. Maybe that bothers you, maybe not.
For more info, try this:http://www.digidesign.com/support/do...ence_Guide.pdf
Page 379 will tell you more about all this.
BTW, no amount of farms can change this. As for your installation, thats another can of worms!
-p



[This message has been edited by Peter Steinbach (edited March 05, 2001).]

[Vedderman]

Well, I begin to feel a lot better now thanks to you all!.......as I thought the 888s couldn't be that bad it's just that the person who told me this is way far ahead of me technically wise so I guess he would never be pleased by an 888.....well after driving a Lamborghini Diablo for most of your life would say that a Corvette is a good car?...
About the plug ins, guess you are right I'll let my ears decide......

Before I go I would like to throw another question in:
The Motor Mix Control surface....is it a reliable tool? Iknow it might not be really confortable but as long as it does what it says it does I could do very well with it until I can get a Pro Control or something...btw, I've seen engineer Mick Glossop, interviewed on EQ Magazine May 2000, at his project studio I guess using 4 of these Motor Mix and Pro Tools....

Well, I'll be bugging later on.....again!
Best regards, Marcelo

[666]

Motormix:
i use it, would be better a 48 ch ProControl, but for writing automation and other controls i feel very good whit it.

888/24
If you drive Corvette or Lamborghini... or Fiat 500!, you wil anyway reach your destination...sound is a little bit different problem. Your ears may refuse or accept a sound depending of the subtle differencies that occours when you make a 888/24 vs Apogee comparison.

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somewhere in the planet