Mic Inputs Very Low (AGAIN WTF!!!) w/ Mbox 3

[Darryl Ramm]

Both cables have XLRs at both ends right? I am still trying to get that basic answer.

What about tapping shaking the Mics and wiggling the connectors and cables. What happened when you tried that? Albee already explained several posts ago why simple things like why a broken or loose wire can cause problems.

Try all permutations of all mics and cables and inputs you have.

Try a line level input on a TRS connector, e.g. from a CD or tape payer. Does that work as expected? That test is important as it helps isolate phantom power and mic preamp problems.

What exactly is the other Mic? Does it need phantom power (hopefully not as that gives a handy test to see if the phantom power circuit is fried).

Does the Mbox hardware mixer seem to put out reasonable signal levels when you are monitoring with that? If you have not been monitoring with that try it and see.

What happens when you turn on and off phantom power on both mics (wether they need it or not -- I am assuming your cheap mic is not a high-end ribbon that might be damaged by phantom power). Do you hear any clicks or

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Do you understand the other question here about pre and post fader monitoring? if you are looking at the track level meter while tracking and have post fader metering enabled it is easy to fool yourself that the signal level is too low, you won't know for sure when you are listening if you are monitoring through the Mbox mixer. But if you are comparing edit window levels (of un manipulated clips) then its hard to see it being the issue.

[ianbee]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

Both cables have XLRs at both ends right? I am still trying to get that basic answer.

What about tapping shaking the Mics and wiggling the connectors and cables. What happened when you tried that? Albee already explained several posts ago why simple things like why a broken or loose wire can cause problems.

Try all permutations of all mics and cables and inputs you have.

Try a line level input on a TRS connector, e.g. from a CD or tape payer. Does that work as expected? That test is important as it helps isolate phantom power and mic preamp problems.

What exactly is the other Mic? Does it need phantom power (hopefully not as that gives a handy test to see if the phantom power circuit is fried).

Does the Mbox hardware mixer seem to put out reasonable signal levels when you are monitoring with that? If you have not been monitoring with that try it and see.

What happens when you turn on and off phantom power on both mics (wether they need it or not -- I am assuming your cheap mic is not a high-end ribbon that might be damaged by phantom power). Do you hear any clicks or

---

Do you understand the other question here about pre and post fader monitoring? if you are looking at the track level meter while tracking and have post fader metering enabled it is easy to fool yourself that the signal level is too low, you won't know for sure when you are listening if you are monitoring through the Mbox mixer. But if you are comparing edit window levels (of un manipulated clips) then its hard to see it being the issue.

- Both Cables have 3 pin XLR on each end. No TRS

- Shaking Doesn't seem to affect the volume levels.

- I tried all combinations for XLR cables w/ the two microphones... the levels remain the same for my TLM 102 and my worse microphone (PVi100) with both XLR cables.

"Try a line level input on a TRS connector, e.g. from a CD or tape payer"
I am unable to do that at this point.. don't have the resources.

- The other mic is a PVi100 and it does not need phantom power.

- The Mbox Control Panel gives me the same signal levels as Pro Tools.

- When I turn of phantom power my tlm 102 doesn't work since it requires phantom power. and with the worse mic which is the pvi100.. it makes no difference with volume levels when phantom power is turned off / on. Regardless, the volume levels for the pvi100 are EXTERMELY low, even lower than my tlm 102. This is a bummer, but my main concern is getting the 102 working at correct volume levels.

- Regarding the post / pre monitoring, I'm assuming you guys are tlaking about the option to see the levels before or after my recordings go through my faders. When I enable or disable this featured through the Options tab.. it does not make any difference with volume levels.

Thanks for the help so far, I just really wana get this working

[Darryl Ramm]

When you say something does not affect the levels, how exactly are you determining that?

On the fader meters? in pre fader meter mode? (Double check you are in pre-fader metering mode under the options menu)

By the volume of the monitors? Listening through Pro Tools? (Not the built in mixer?). Are the monitor level and master fade levels turned up?
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Create a new stereo audio track, drag and drop your favorite mp3 or similar audio file on that track. Does the level of what you are hearing when you play that in Pro Tools seem right? Do the meters levels seem right? (Almost certainly this will sound/look louder than your mic input because its just likely a denser mix and compressed a lot. But if it sounds far too quiet then that is a useful clue).

Failing any surprises here and if you cannot test with a line level source. You provably need to contact Avid, maybe to arrange a repair.

Darryl

[cwsand]

Just to be sure - and I've never used an MBox - but are the 20 dB pads activated with a push/pull on the level knobs?

[albee1952]

Grasping at straws here, but; do you have meters set to Pre-Fade?(you should, at least for tracking). If meters were set to POST-fade, was the track fader at the -0 mark? Is there anybody local to you using a similar setup where you could take your mic, cable and Mbox and do a comparison? Or a local music/pro audio shop?

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by albee1952

Grasping at straws here, but; do you have meters set to Pre-Fade?(you should, at least for tracking). If meters were set to POST-fade, was the track fader at the -0 mark? Is there anybody local to you using a similar setup where you could take your mic, cable and Mbox and do a comparison? Or a local music/pro audio shop?

There seems a lot of reverb on this thread

[Top Jimmy]

Expecting equivalent gain for different input types is foolish. In the picture above, the guitar was recorded way too hot while the vocal is pretty close to being right on. The preamp has a knob. Use it. Turn it up when gain needs to be increased and down when decreased. A 57 typically needs nearly all the gain an Mbox pre can deliver. The greatest lesson the OP needs is one on gain structure.


Buttdialed by me & Tapatalk

[ianbee]

Originally Posted by Top Jimmy

Expecting equivalent gain for different input types is foolish. In the picture above, the guitar was recorded way too hot while the vocal is pretty close to being right on. The preamp has a knob. Use it. Turn it up when gain needs to be increased and down when decreased. A 57 typically needs nearly all the gain an Mbox pre can deliver. The greatest lesson the OP needs is one on gain structure.


Buttdialed by me & Tapatalk

So what you are saying is that this is normal? Even with my other mic which records at lower than half the volume of my already really quiet TLM 102? That's normal? hmm... This seems strange to me. I guess the mic preamps for the mbox are just naturally low. Is there any other interfaces / preamps that you would suggest that would be louder and also have 2 mic inputs (minimum), 1 instrument input (minimum) and monitor in/outs (trs).. and also work with PT? I'm also going to speak to someone at avid tommorow and see what they say. Thanks for the help.

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by ianbee

So what you are saying is that this is normal? Even with my other mic which records at lower than half the volume of my already really quiet TLM 102? That's normal? hmm... This seems strange to me. I guess the mic preamps for the mbox are just naturally low. Is there any other interfaces / preamps that you would suggest that would be louder and also have 2 mic inputs (minimum), 1 instrument input (minimum) and monitor in/outs (trs).. and also work with PT? I'm also going to speak to someone at avid tommorow and see what they say. Thanks for the help.

Why do you think you need to buy something? Lets backtrack, what EXACTLY the problem you think you are tryign to solve?

Where a microphone comes up to on the level meter is not unto itself a problem. If you want something "louder" you adjust it in the mix (change the volume slides, (hopefully carefully) apply compression etc.), or turn up the monitor volume to be as loud as you want. Buy a louder amplifier or powered monitors if you want louder.

You are singing into the front (logo) side of the Nueman I hope.

FWIW a Nuemann TL 102 should have about 17dB more sensitivity that a SM57. I have no idea the specs of a Peavy PVi 100 Mic, presumably close to the SM57. If the Peavy is around 17db less sensitive that the Neumann , and the Mbox gain knob has a 54 dB sweep range, so around 17/54 ~ 1/3 of the sweep. So you should be seeing somehtign aroudn that type of difference int he input gain settings to get equivalent signals (but that is not necessarily the goal).

But so what, you are not trying to use input gain to set mix volumes, you are supposed to be using that to provide as good a conversion as you can, minimize analog noise or analog and digital clipping, just finding what sounds best. So find a point where the gain settings for each mic sounds best (playing with the track volume slider and monitor levels if needed while doing this) and then leave them there. Whatever volume each track ends up in the mix you fix with the big flat track slider in Pro Tools.

I hope this is not what has been really going on all this time.

Darryl

[ianbee]

Thanks for the input guys, I've practically came to the conclusion that the levesl i'm getting and the volume I am getting for my recordings are natural with the mbox... or maybe most preamps / interfaces out there. But its puzzling to me because with my pv i100 mic... I record with the gain cranked practically all the way up and the levels are so quiet that I have to boost up the gain in PT atleast 12 db for a decent volume. It's not as bad with my TLM 102.. but I just expected it to work in the aspect that if my gain knob is almost all the way to the right and I sing fairly loud... I should get some levels or volume that is atleast in the yellow range... it works like that with my guitar... I record with the gain knob not even at half and I get clipping. But with my tlm 102 mic. I crank the gain knob up almost all the way to the right with my box, sing loud and get somewhat quiet results.

I know you can adjust this all in post.. but when my gain level is cranked up this far I get some annoying noise in my recordings. But maybe I would get the same if the gain knob was more sensitive. I don't know.

It's all very weird to me because the person I spoke to over the phone at avid shared my screen with him, had me do test and then came to the conclusion that I have a "faulty" mbox. But this obviously is not the case since the same "issue" remains on my new mbox.

Again, I appreciate your guys's input and will talk to an avid support worker tommorow. Wish me luck!