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  #1  
Old 04-11-2019, 03:28 PM
ric982 ric982 is offline
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Default iTunes Issues - Workaround or What's better

This is not exactly a protools issue, but more of a audio production environment question from a nubie.

I have a Windows 10 protools 2018.12 setup. I place protools generated .wav files in iTunes so I can (1) get them on a CD and (2) stream them through the Windows 10 DLNA server to other playback systems.

The problem I'm having is that itunes sticks all my .wav files into the
/iTunes Media/Music/Unknown Artist/Unknown Album/ directory. I can manually edit the song metadata on iTunes to get iTunes to see a set of songs as an album, but that doesn't change the directory it is stored in and the DLNA server just reflects the iTunes directory structure (i.e. every song I've ever added is all in the same directory). Tried changing the iTunes directory structure, but it seems to ignore whatever I added.

In talking with iTunes, if I were adding .mp4a files with appropriate metadata (like when you rip a CD), it would file them under the /Artist/Album and that would cure my problem. So maybe some software that lets me convert .wav to .mp4a and edit the metadata would work. Or maybe a different software product than iTunes to manage my media?

I'm also interested in how you would generate a CDA master for production that includes all appropriate metadata. Any pointers to software products or information would be helpful.
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  #2  
Old 04-12-2019, 04:58 AM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
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Default Re: iTunes Issues - Workaround or What's better

Take a look at Steinberg Wavelab 9.5 Elements. That's the cheaper version at $100 US; the full version is like $560 US or so.
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  #3  
Old 04-12-2019, 06:37 AM
BScout BScout is offline
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Default Re: iTunes Issues - Workaround or What's better

A CD-Audio (or more appropriately a DDP for a master) does not contain the same metadata as you see in something like iTunes. The data retrieved in iTunes (or Windows Media Player) comes from internet databases like Grace Notes.

You can convert files directly in iTunes from wav. Just right click on them and you will see the option. You set what it converts to from iTunes preferences.
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  #4  
Old 04-12-2019, 02:55 PM
ric982 ric982 is offline
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Default Re: iTunes Issues - Workaround or What's better

Thanks Musicman691 and BScout.

After googling some CD print shops (after my post) I bumped into "DDP" (as BScout also informed me) and that has lead me to a lot of stuff:

WaveLab Elements
Hofa CD-Burn.DDP.Master
Sonoris DDP Creator
Sony CD Architect
DSP Quatro (but Mac only apparently)

Have some more reading to do but this got me off the starting block.
Thanks.
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  #5  
Old 04-13-2019, 05:29 AM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
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Default Re: iTunes Issues - Workaround or What's better

Quote:
Originally Posted by ric982 View Post
Thanks Musicman691 and BScout.

After googling some CD print shops (after my post) I bumped into "DDP" (as BScout also informed me) and that has lead me to a lot of stuff:

WaveLab Elements
Hofa CD-Burn.DDP.Master
Sonoris DDP Creator
Sony CD Architect
DSP Quatro (but Mac only apparently)

Have some more reading to do but this got me off the starting block.
Thanks.
CD Architect hasn't been updated in years. I don't believe Magix (the new owner of Sony music production s/w) even sells it. If you can get it (it's Windows only) and can run it in a modern Windows it's pretty decent.

Yes DSP Quattro is Mac only. I'd stay away from it as the developer is very slow at working on the program. Let's put it this way - the current version of the program (V5) is nowheres near as capable as V4 and Stefano doesn't seem to be capable of getting the work done. If you need a batch processor - it doesn't exist in V5 but it did in V4. Pencil tool for editing waveforms - ditto.

Neat thing with the standalone version of the HOFA program is you get to use all their plugins without paying extra. And here's a bonus - those plugins are also available inside PT as regular inserts One downer with the HOFA program - you can't use third party plugins in it

I'd seriously take a look at Wavelab Elements. 30 day fully functioning trial. Uses the Steinberg e-licenser. Now I don't know if it'll work with the software elicenser or if it needs the h/w dongle. For me it didn't matter because I have the dongle because I have other programs that need it.
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  #6  
Old 04-14-2019, 09:08 AM
ric982 ric982 is offline
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Default Re: iTunes Issues - Workaround or What's better

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Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
I'd seriously take a look at Wavelab Elements. 30 day fully functioning trial.
Thanks Jack. Most helpful.

I have an ILOK dongle, do you know if their key will work with that?

Seems the nice thing about wave lab is that you can put high rez audio in and then go to wherever you need to for your intended target. Are you happy with their dithering capabilities? Loudness analysis/mamagement? Or do you tend to bounce out of your DAW for a specific target and just assemble in waveLab?

Also it looks like with Elements they don't allow more than 3 tracks so you have to use Montage to assemble a CD? Is that right?

I don't need DDP yet, so I'm thinking I'll just get waveLab Elements and worry about upgrading to Pro if I need it. The difference in total price for the upgrade path looks like about $25. Do you see any downside with this thinking?
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  #7  
Old 04-14-2019, 02:13 PM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
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Default Re: iTunes Issues - Workaround or What's better

Quote:
Originally Posted by ric982 View Post
Thanks Jack. Most helpful.

I have an ILOK dongle, do you know if their key will work with that?

Seems the nice thing about wave lab is that you can put high rez audio in and then go to wherever you need to for your intended target. Are you happy with their dithering capabilities? Loudness analysis/mamagement? Or do you tend to bounce out of your DAW for a specific target and just assemble in waveLab?

Also it looks like with Elements they don't allow more than 3 tracks so you have to use Montage to assemble a CD? Is that right?

I don't need DDP yet, so I'm thinking I'll just get waveLab Elements and worry about upgrading to Pro if I need it. The difference in total price for the upgrade path looks like about $25. Do you see any downside with this thinking?
The iLok and Steinberg keys are two completely different dongles. Each will not hold the other's license assets. Like I said I don't know if Wavelab will run with the software alone version of eLicenser or if it needs the Steinberg dongle. You may want to contact Steinberg about that. BTW the Steinberg key is the same as the Vienna key under a different name.

You do have to use Montage to assemble a cd. The workings take a little bit of getting used to especially if you're used to working with another cd program/wave editor. That's why it'd be good for you to grab the demo assuming you get things worked out if it needs the h/w dongle or can run with just the s/w eLicenser. Some programs will run just fine without the dongle but need the s/w that runs it and some need the dongle as well as the s/w driver.

The price difference between Wavelabs Elements and Wavelab Pro is WAY more than $25. Wavelab Pro is $560

I'm okay with their dithering so far. As far as loudness analysis & management I tend to use third party plugins for that. I don't have to hit any EBU specs; I do everything at K14 levels from PT and final levels I adjust in Montage either by the track level or the mastering compressor (elysia alpha compressor) I use on each track.

A little bit about the terminology used. Each CD track can have it's own pair of fx and that's assigned by way of the clips fx assignment at the top of the gui. There is a slick way of getting more than two fx per clip and that's to use Blue Cat Patchwork. Neat thing with that method is you can have all the plugin gui's open at the same time. If you just use the 2 slots allowed by Wavelab Elements you can only have one gui open at a time but can show the other gui by clicking the tab in the open gui that corresponds to the plugin you want to work with. A bit of a pain and one of those things like I said you have to adjust for.

I'm finding it a fascinating program to work with. Add to that the thing of not having to create a project just to edit a soundfile like you have to in DSP Quattro 5 and it's heaven for me.

Unless you really need everything that Wavelab Pro does and have the money to blow on it Elements should do you just fine. I know there's a few people here who just use the Elements version.

The one program I'm really disappointed in is Soundforge Pro for Mac. Sony sold off their music s/w assets to Magix. I used Soundforge on my old Windows system along with CD Architect and it was amazing the quality work I could do with it. I figured the Mac version would be just as good - was I ever wrong. The editing of waveforms is a nightmare although the quality of the work one can do is still excellent. And like I said CDA hasn't been updated in a dog's age. Now if the cd assemblage in the Mac version of Soundforge was a good it might be tolerable. All you get now is simple cd assemblage & burn. No way to play the tracks to check & adjust levels before burning. Have no idea if the Windows version of Soundforge is any better these days.
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  #8  
Old 04-15-2019, 09:10 AM
ric982 ric982 is offline
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Default Re: iTunes Issues - Workaround or What's better

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
The price difference between Wavelabs Elements and Wavelab Pro is WAY more than $25. Wavelab Pro is $560
.
WL Pro 9.5 $552 (Sweetwater)
WL Elements 9.5 $100 (Sweetwater) + WL Elements to Pro 9.5 Upgrade $480 (Musicians Friend) = $580
$580 - 552 = $28
In otherwords - it won't cost me much to try Elements first if I need to go to Pro later.


Thanks again Jack. Very very helpful. I think I'm sold. Once I figure out the dongle and get a little time, will check out the Elements demo.
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  #9  
Old 04-15-2019, 09:28 AM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
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Default Re: iTunes Issues - Workaround or What's better

Quote:
Originally Posted by ric982 View Post
WL Pro 9.5 $552 (Sweetwater)
WL Elements 9.5 $100 (Sweetwater) + WL Elements to Pro 9.5 Upgrade $480 (Musicians Friend) = $580
$580 - 552 = $28
In otherwords - it won't cost me much to try Elements first if I need to go to Pro later.


Thanks again Jack. Very very helpful. I think I'm sold. Once I figure out the dongle and get a little time, will check out the Elements demo.
But the cost differential between the two programs is still more than the $25 you stated. Now that you're figuring in the upgrade that changes things. Actually save yourself $10 on Elements and get it from Audio Deluxe when logged in to your account there. Oh yeah - the upgrade to Pro from Elements is the same price at the Steinberg online store as it is from MF. That's rare but it does happen.
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  #10  
Old 04-15-2019, 05:28 PM
ric982 ric982 is offline
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Default Re: iTunes Issues - Workaround or What's better

So Jack, although you have sold me on wavelab for creating a CD image, I found a solution to the problem I was actually trying to fix that is free.

I was trying to get iTunes to file my music under the actual artist and album instead of under 'unknown artist/unknown album'. Using wavelab to create a CD image and ripping it to iTunes would have done that. But rethinking this, I thought perhaps using a .wav to mp4a(alac) converter (e.g. like NCH Switch Audio File Coverter) and a metadata editor e.g. like Mp3tag from widows store) before putting the file in iTunes might be cheaper and easier.

In trying to prototype this, I tried using iTunes to do the file conversion (File>Convert) using a .wav file that I had in iTunes already. However, I found that by editing the metadata in iTunes first and then converting it to .mp4a, iTunes created the desired directory structure so that the mp4a is under my 'artist/album'. Then I just needed to delete the original .wav version out of iTunes and I'm good.

Workflow in detail:
1) Generate a .wav file from protools (has no metadata).
2) Put .wav in iTunes (by copying it into the 'Automatically Add to iTune' directory). iTunes files it in 'usr/Music/iTunes/iTunes Media/Music/Unknown Artist/Unknown Album'.
3) In iTunes, Resently Added shows the song just added. Right click to edit 'song info' to put in an artist, album, album artist, and composer. I now see an album in iTunes with my artist and album, but the .wav file is still in 'unknown artist/unknown album' (I also believe the file is not modified - metadata is in iTunes somewhere).
4) iTunes File>Convert Create Apple Lossless Version. This creates an .mp4a file with the same song title, but puts it in the "artist/album" directory that matches the metadata I added (also leaves the original .wav file in "unknown artist/unknown album").
5) In iTunes, open the album which shows two copies of the song. Delete the first one (you can check the version by right clicking and showing in windows explore to make sure that its the copy in 'unknown artist').

Now when I open my Windows Media Server client it sees my artist and my album and the original song is no longer in 'unknown artist/unknown album'.
And I can move the album songs to a playlist to burn a CD (provided they are 44.1/16bit). Not as functional as wavelab but probably good enough for today.

Thanks again for all the good info on wavelab.
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