What is the best way to mix for multiple outputs of layback in stereo and mono?

[Boom Chic]

I've got to deliver stereo mix on ch 1 & 2, mono mix minus narration on ch 3, and mono mix on ch 4 on Digibeta. I've done this beore but for some reason (lack of sleep maybe) I'm having a brain freeze!

What's the best way to organize my mix from the start to achieve the right layback requirements on the different channels, and to get a proper mix in stereo and mono at the same time?

Outputs, sends, pans, monitoring, etc?

PT 24 Mix Plus 5.1.3
888/24
hui
Dorrough meters
Digibeta (for layback on 4 channels) AES/EBU

Thanks. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Boom Chic]

Well, my brain freeze thawed, and I did my laybacks, and everything worked great! I used a combination of master faders, and sends to accomplish my delivery requirements.

What's your preferred method?

[potatohead]

Did you make use of assigning multiple outputs (Control-click outputs assign) and subpaths?

[Boom Chic]

potatohead,

No I didn't, [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img] is this something new in 5.1.3?

Could you explain how to use this feature?
What are subpaths?

By using control-click, I could've selected several outputs? This would've been the simplest solution, but my gigs were yesterday, so I'll have to do this on my next one.

My mono tracks were much hotter (summed I guess) than my stereo layback, and I had to use their own master fader to match the levels of the stereo tracks (and monitor from headphones out of the digibeta deck to check the mix levels).

Is there a method to getting a stereo mix, and mono mix from just one mix? I had to adjust some levels in the mix for the mono layback.

Thanks.

[Barnaby Bristol]

Hey BC. Typically I use sends since I usually have to fiddle with levels. If you're summing stereo to mono, drop the level by 6 dB. If you're sending a mono track that is on the stereo mix buss (ie. pan pot) to a mono bus output, you need to drop the level to the mono bus output by 2.5 dB. Cheers.

[Boom Chic]

Thanks for the tips BB!
Is it always -6db and -2.5 db?

Thanks.

[Barnaby Bristol]

With stereo it is somewhat hit and miss. In the simplest case, you have a stereo track outputting through P1/2 and you need to output a mono mix on P3, creating a send and setting the level to -6dB will generally get you the same level output. I've looked at this on my Tektronix 764 meter and as long as you have a cohesive stereo mix (no wide - outta phase stuff), it will get you the same levels. Individual elements panned hard left/right will be down 3 dB. If that's of concern, then is the client willing to pay to have you mix a mono mix, your can you organize your work to broadly compensate for wide elements? So I almost always use -6dB for the mono summation of a stereo source and it works pretty well.

When you deal with stem mixes, think of how (you hope) the editor will set up his mixer. Let's say you're generating a DA-88 with two stereo stems (1-4) and four mono stems (5-8). When I first started in post, I asked many editors how they'd set this up. The common response was that they'd play tone, pan 1/2 hard left/right and set 1/2's faders so that their output meters read 0vu. Mute 1/2, do the same for 3/4. Mute 3/4. Pan 5 up the center and set the fader for 0vu on both meters. And so forth for the rest of the mono stems. The result is that the faders for mono channels and stereo channels will not be at the same setting because of the gain boast/cut of the pan pot.

In Pro Tools, the pan pot is at unity and will pass a bit for bit copy of the data if the pan pot is hard left/right and the fader is at '0.' When the pan pot is in the center, gain is reduced to both busses by 2.5dB. This can vary from mixer to mixer and is determined by the designer. Interestingly, if you have a 16bit track that you pan up the center, the coefficient Digi picked that yields this 2.5dB level change results in an 18bit output. This makes good sense since this means there is less quantization error for these commonly used settings. Probably more than you wanted to know.