the secret of loudness on a CD master....

[domsound]

Hello everyone, I was wondering if any of you can help me,

whats the secret of loudness on a CD master?

I am trying to get my CD's as loud as most of the ones I listen too...whats needed?
Is it limiting everything loads, or does the software you write your cd's with count?
I use adaptec Jam 2.6, I master my songs using the L1 ultramaximizer at "16 bit dither final master highest res" waves setting, with at least -4db of threshold, to push everything louder, and they still dont sound as loud as other cd's...does the volume on comercialy produced cd's come form the cd production plant...are self burned cds quieter?

Any advice/threads greatly appreciated


Cheers

james

[sonicprod1]

The L1 is great for getting your CD's louder. I also use the WAVES C4 and ren-compressor. You have to be real careful. Your best bet is to have your album professionally mastered. I would be more than glad to give you a free preview of one of your songs mastered. You can contact me: [email protected]

Best of luck!
Steve

[Mr T]

Just my opinion : getting the loudest CD is nonsense. What's the point?" I'm louder than anyone else!"...?... so what?
The important thing when it comes to mastering your CD (at least in terms of level), is that all tracks should almost have the same dynamic / general level. A listener shouldn't have to pump up or down the volume during playback; that's pretty much it (well...almost...) .
Take an "old" Bowie or Hendrix CD (or even a Radiohead track) and compare it to some today's so called R&B s**t (just random examples...) ; the R&B s**t sure sounds louder; does it make it better? Certainly not !
I personnaly don't give a damn if my CD is louder than Mariah Carrey's one !...
Once again, just my opinion.
Meanwhile, an intelligent use of compression and/or Limiter+ EQ+ proper panning could help...
Stop the high levels race !!!

[guitarrob]

I agree that louder is not always better, but it is a goal for a lot of us to produce CD's that are at least close in volume to what's commercially out there. Otherwise, when your CD is in the changer with all the others, your's will sound small and soft in comparison.

At any rate, I've had some good results with the Waves Ren Comp, Ren EQ, Digi Maxim combo, but I hear that TC Master X is really great for getting the levels up without compromising dynamics / sound.

The problem is, there is no RTAS version of Master X, so unless you master in Peak or some other VST prog or a TDM system, it's not a solution. Anybody have any experience with Master X?

[James Bryan]

HI.

Mastering is job best left for pros, and I am not one of them.

True mastering engineers usually are equipped with $6000 massenburg eq's, $5000 Neve Compressors, and $25,000 Sonic Solutions Mastering Systems. Buying the gear does not make one a mastering engineer, but mastering engineers that have the ears qualified to tweak said top-shelf gear, are worth every penny.

That being said, I have been producing and engineering bands for years, and not all bands can afford to master their product "professionally". If they can, I ALWAYS encourage it, but when they can't I do my best for them, (at about one fifth the going rate).

Using your pro tools rig you can assemble and "maximize" a nice master for your band or clients.

To get the CD "loud" (which does not necessarry mean "better") the weapon of choice for years has been the L1 maximizer (waves) or the Digi plug-in, I think called "Maxim", which I have never used.

Either one enables you to bring the signal up to "digital zero", which is maximum output for digital audio. You can also make it SEEM even louder by then applying more compression to that signal, with the same mentioned plugins, or others, but I have noticed distortion rapidly occurs after about 2 - 3 db of L1 compression, at least for Rock and Roll and the L1.

Other compression/eq before or after an L1 can make a difference, but the L1 is specifically designed to make your digital audio as loud as possible with the least alteration of sound.

Loudness is in the ear of the beholder, but there is some credibility to the concept that louder CD's stick out more on the radio etc. That's why everyone has been doin it for years.

Out of respect for true mastering engineers, I always tell my bands that what I have done is not technically mastering, just "assembling masters" and making them louder etc. Then I tell them to try and budget their next project with some money to master properly.

Anyway, the short answer is, get Waves L1 or Digi "Maxim" and crank it up.

Hope this helps.

[tantejo]

this is what i do:
in spark i use a 4 band multiband compressor for the overall sound levelling. (the fx engine is great for that) and after the leveling i use the L1 to beef up the volume. when you this you should listen to very good monitoring system, otherwise it won't sound good on your stereo at home.
sometimes in spark i anually lower the volume of some peaks with -3dB so after normalising the overall level will be louder. (before the procedure above)
the sound is louder after the processings, and when you do this carefully most of the time sound better and bigger too.
greetings, tantejo.

[CCash]

A couple of things... and these are not personal endorsements. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

First, the individual tracks have to be compressed pretty hard. It's a cumulative thing.

Second, yes a limiter like the L1 on the stereo mix. Multiband compression is very helpful too, because you can compress ranges of frequencies separately... different treatment to the lows, mids and highs for example... and make 'em work for you.

Lastly, you may never be able get as loud as the commercial stuff without pro mastering. There is a new trend of actually clipping the waveform. I never saw this until about two years ago. Before this, when I would import modern CD tracks and look at the waveform zoomed out, the tops and bottoms looked like they had a buzz-cut. Chopped off. Severely limited. But as I zoomed in I could begin to see the shape of the waveform.

Then I bought a new, extremely loud CD just to check it out. Same as always -- the buzz-cut. But when I zoomed in all the way the actual waveform was flat... shaved off! This should equal distortion, but apparently Sonic Solutions (for example) is able to do this to get things 2 or 3 dB hotter without sounding distorted. Can it get any louder than this? I think we've reached the limit... har har.

[GIE]

There was a helpfull thread about home-mastering a while ago...
You can find it here: http://duc. digidesign.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=24&t=005050

Lot's of usefull info!
(and also use the search option to find out more, cause a lot of interesting stuff has been written!)

BTW: Don't over-do the "LOUD thing"... It doesn't sound better in the long run, but will convince you it's better on short terms...

[DetroitT]

1. Tracking - Mild compression maybe but riding the faders gives a better result.
2. Mixing - Post effects give more control than if tracked! So, here you can add to individual tracks a bit of limiting and or compression for the effect of automate/ride the faders for volume balance needs. Again fader
riding gives the truest results to keep your tracks clean and balanced.
3.* Mastering- Making all songs play together at appropriate volume and tonal balance.
4. Radio, TV. Film, CD All are delivery media's and should have * masters made for their specific use. Radio stations add compression/limiting & Eq too!!!!
If your looking for that radio sound too early in the process you'll end up inverting you dynamic range (breaths louder than a screaming vocal and such)
If possible set up a compressor & eq to emulate a particular radio station your aiming for and preview through this bus.
Try to make your mix masters as dynamic and well balanced as possible so what ever media it ends up on it will sound as good as it can.
Remember the song! Tell the story, not just demonstrate technology.
tc

[bruceup]

There is no substitute for a good, well-equipped mastering engineer. Worth it's weight in sonic gold.

However, if you're on a sonic silver budget, check out T-Racks by IK Multimedia:
http://www.ikmultimedia.com

If loud and squashed is what you want, T-Racks is the ticket.