Making a M7CL sound worth a damn

[Jon Martin]

I know ths may be a strange place to ask this question but I have been fighting tooth and nail to get a Profile on my next tour and the bean counters stabbed me in the back.
Now I'm stuck with a Yamaha M7CL.

I had got so used to having my plugs (Phoenix, Impact, etc..) and now I'm searching for a way to make this god awful console sound worth a damn.

I've read about external clocking, but there seems to be two teams of thought on this subject. On one side are the people who swear it DOES make a difference and on the other side there are people who swear that it DOESN'T make a difference.

Also there are units such as the Cranesong HEDD, Empirical Labs FATSO and the Waves MaxxBCL that I could throw at this thing. (and if they weren't so expensive, I would actually throw them at it!)

So Digi users, what would you do to ?
(and don't say "get a Profile")

[Scott Fahy]

I feel your pain, Joon. I did figure out a way to use parallel compression on the M7 and it helps. (not enough though). An external clock is a good place to start and all of the other things you mentioned are worth a shot. But you should get a Profile (ducking now)

[Nicolas Lowman]

Hi Jon,

I understand where you are. I would think that the Cranesong Hedd would be an improvement if you were to run digital out of the desk and use that for your AD conversion. I know a friend who used one of my XTA SIDD units to do that and it was an improvement. Having said that I have used the desk quite a few times and never had a very positive experience. I carried a 5d for a year and know how to deal with the Yamahas. I would suggest that you maybe try to go for an analog desk and see if the accountants can agree on a price for one of those. But then you have weight and foot print to deal with. If all else fails, take the desk-don't spend money on extra stuff for it and let it sound the way it does. When the band or management asks why it is like that, explain you get what you pay for. I wish I could tell you that you could clock it to a plutonium atomic clock charged with a reverse flux capacitator and it would sound good, but it won't. Sorry

Nicolas

[Shiko]

try not using the analog outs.

i usually try to go digital to the xta the d/a of the m7 is crap...if u got a waves maxxbcl or l2 try to go digital to it and digital from it.
try eq2 for your input channels and eq 1 for your outputs .
try to keep it in the the -18 zone on the channels, something there just cant take the "heat" unlike a 5d...

good luck.

[Roland Clarke]

I am an avid fan of the Venue, (being that I'm an owner), however, the M7cl is a usable console, and capable of great sound in the right hands. Granted I don't think that it competes with the profile, and the lack of the plugin's means that you don't have the same choice of sound palette, but although it's limited in some respects it's still capable of good sound.

Also bear in mind that the Venue is slightly more expensive, though, relatively cheaper for the extra functionality.

Regards


Roland

[Chris Johnson]

I will open my reply (which will be very constructive) by saying that only bad workmen blame their tools. an M7 is not a bad console, and with the right methods and some carefully selected outboard, you will be able to achieve great results. when i hire extra engineers for big jobs, i never hire the ones who tell me they absolutely cant work without a certain piece of gear. being an engineer is about finding solutions to problems, if your problem is a less than ideal house console, then find a solution!
Personally, i've also found that a lot of experience is there to be gained from the less than ideal shows...

Onto the constructive bit. i have found that external clocking with a very high quality unit in conjunction with great d/a makes a big difference. i used to use a DA16x with my old M7s. this gave me the outputs i wanted and allowed me to use a great clock. couple that with an AES card and a MaxxBCL and you'd have a nice system.
The other thing worth doing is using AES inserts and external effects, as this gives you more GEQ processing, and better FX engines.

Give it a go!

[Jon Martin]

Originally Posted by Chris Johnson

......... being an engineer is about finding solutions to problems, if your problem is a less than ideal house console, then find a solution!
Personally, i've also found that a lot of experience is there to be gained from the less than ideal shows...

I understand the shortcomings of the console itself. It is no PM5D, nor is it anywhere near a D-show. Hence my post looking for solutions. If I CAN try to get better performance out of it, why not? Maybe it all stems from me being a natural born "tinker'er" and my uncle's obsession with building hot rods and drag bikes...


I think after 25+ years of touring that I have had my fair share of "less than ideal shows"... Heck, give me a Peavey MarkIV and a well tuned rig and we'll have a rock show!

Onto the constructive bit. i have found that external clocking with a very high quality unit in conjunction with great d/a makes a big difference. i used to use a DA16x with my old M7s. this gave me the outputs i wanted and allowed me to use a great clock. couple that with an AES card and a MaxxBCL and you'd have a nice system.
The other thing worth doing is using AES inserts and external effects, as this gives you more GEQ processing, and better FX engines.

Give it a go!

And that is exactly the kind of answer I was looking for.
Thank you.

[Jon Martin]

FWIW, Jon Monson @ RAT Sound is on somewhat the same quest as me.

Jon sent me this:

....I am after the other elusive claim, that PM5d's (or their little brothers) sound waaaay different (better) when using an external clock than the internal.
To this day I have engineers requesting PM5d's with Big bens. Does it make a difference? I am determined to know.
I am going to try to come to some kind of determination next week. Got a big ben. Going to use pro-tools tracks so I will have about 32 inputs into a m7 and pm5d. switch from external to internal clock. if it is audible through studio monitors, then we shall see!

And this from Justin @ Clair:

....I've read good & bad things about using an external clock, and the A-D cards are ok in the console, but not the best when you compare it to other consoles. One thing that people seem to agree on is using a Waves MaxxBCL external unit and connecting to the console via AES card in the back of the console. We know a great engineer who uses a PM5D at FOH and he SWEARS by this unit.

Other than that, most of the M7CL's that we rent go into monitor world for the band, and those engineers don't use much external processing. I think they are just happy to have a desk that doesn't break the bank & can recall files!

So obviously I am not the only one who is on this path.

[Sheldon Radford]

Hey Jon,

Sounds like a signal flow problem. Try inserting the accountant post-fader instead of pre-fader. That can sometimes be a bit tricky, though...

Good luck out there!

Sheldon

[wallygrant]

Jon,

is this something that is being bought for the tour or a rental? If it is a rental maybe you can look into renting a Mixrack which would be comparable on input/outputs. Same control surface. Just a thought.