Definitive answer on CPTK1 upgrade to PT11HD?

[kazuomik]

Originally Posted by Righty27

... and it would appear that, to upgrade, the CPTK will need to be registered with Avid i.e. unlikely if purchased 'used'.

Originally Posted by Jon_Atkinson

Ok, that doesn't affect me, but for the sake of clarity in this thread do you have a link to that?

http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=337302
http://duc.avid.com/showpost.php?p=2028445&postcount=3

Originally Posted by DFT

Thanks, nst7.

I called the transfer desk this morning and got this information.

1) The CPTK is considered a 'plugin,' and as such cannot be transferred/ reregistered.

While you might be able to transfer the license via iLok ... which is in question as apparently license transfer through iLok is also subject to the software vendor's policies, you would have no upgrade path as you wouldn't be eligible to purchase the upgrade.

2) The only way a CPTK could be sold and registered by a new owner with full upgrade benefits would be if the authorization number had never been registered with an Avid account.

Good luck finding #2!

DFT

[Jon_Atkinson]

Thanks Kazuomik

Just in the last half hour I've had an email from my dealer (KMR in London) on this matter.
They've been at Messe this weekend and had asked AVID exactly this question on my behalf.

I'm afraid the answer given to my dealer *this weekend* by AVID staff was that CPTK1 would not be supported to upgrade to PT11HD.

So we have utterly contradictory answers from AVID on this subject, even in the last couple of days.

Crizdee, like you I read the wording of the AVID statement to include CPTK1...But I do feel it would help if they could change the wording of that sentence to be "If you own CPTK, either version 1 or 2"... Just for the avoidance of any doubt on the matter.
It would also help if they could be specific about the used transfer of licence issue too.

It really hasn't helped that AVID have more than once contradicted themselves on this.... However we are all human, and mistakes are made....
But, surely with a quick change to the wording on the AVID site (to remove any possible ambiguity), this could easily be cleared up and we'd all know exactly where we stand.

[nigelpry]

If it gets to the point where CPTK is no use to me in PT11, i.e. if Avid don't change tack on CPTK's withdrawal, then I'll try to recoup some of the CPTK purchase cost, as the licence will be of limited use to me (i.e. only if I run PT10).

The comment that Avid considers CPTK licences to be like plugins, and does not allow such licences to be transferred, well are we sure about that? I thought plugin licences can be transferred.

Anyway, it would be good if Avid allowed the CPTK licence to be transferred, and used by someone else wanting to upgrade. After all, if they don't allow it, they'll simply be losing a sale.

If Avid don't allow transfers, then there would still be some residual value in the CPTK licence for people sticking with PT10 or earlier. And if doing a iLok transfer is scuppered, well I could always place it on a V1 iLok (should be plenty of those knocking around seeing as PT11 requires everyone to get a V2 iLok) and sell it with the iLok. Not ideal, but an optiom.

As I say though, I remain hopeful that Avid will come up with a properly equitable solution.

[ChazC]

But the iLok asset which we'll be surrendering if we decide to upgrade doesn't differentiate between 1 or 2 - it simply states it's CPTK. How can Avid differentiate the license on the iLok? As far as I'm aware iLok has no ties to your Avid account to see when you actually got your license in the first place?

If you had CPTK 1, when PT10 came out Avid simply said anyone who had CPTK was automatically upgraded to CPTK 2 free of charge. In referring to CPTK 1 are people referring to users who didn't upgrade to PT10 and are wanting to jump from 9 to 11? Even if that's the case, the iLok license is identical.

I must admit I'm going off memory on that last point but I don't recall having to surrender my CPTK license for a new one - I could be wrong on that but either way I'd like confirmation because the last thing I need with this whole debacle is to find I actually only have CPTK 1 & couldn't upgrade even if I was stupid enough to pay $999!

For info I went CPTK from DVTK2 if that has any bearing on it.

[Jon_Atkinson]

Originally Posted by nigelpry

If it gets to the point where CPTK is no use to me in PT11, i.e. if Avid don't change tack on CPTK's withdrawal, then I'll try to recoup some of the CPTK purchase cost, as the licence will be of limited use to me (i.e. only if I run PT10).

The comment that Avid considers CPTK licences to be like plugins, and does not allow such licences to be transferred, well are we sure about that? I thought plugin licences can be transferred.

Anyway, it would be good if Avid allowed the CPTK licence to be transferred, and used by someone else wanting to upgrade. After all, if they don't allow it, they'll simply be losing a sale.

If Avid don't allow transfers, then there would still be some residual value in the CPTK licence for people sticking with PT10 or earlier. And if doing a iLok transfer is scuppered, well I could always place it on a V1 iLok (should be plenty of those knocking around seeing as PT11 requires everyone to get a V2 iLok) and sell it with the iLok. Not ideal, but an optiom.

As I say though, I remain hopeful that Avid will come up with a properly equitable solution.

For the sake of being 100% accurate on this, I believe that the CPTK iLok authorisation CAN be transferred by iLok to another user's iLok account.
The issue is whether a used licence can be used to upgrade to PT11HD (which looks like it might have been answered as a no)...

Again, with no definitive clarification from AVID (and my own personal experience suggesting that even if you are told something by an AVID rep does not necessarily make it correct) this is all conjecture as far as I can see....

Be nice to have this all cleared up.....

[Jon_Atkinson]

Originally Posted by ChazC

But the iLok asset which we'll be surrendering if we decide to upgrade doesn't differentiate between 1 or 2 - it simply states it's CPTK. How can Avid differentiate the license on the iLok? As far as I'm aware iLok has no ties to your Avid account to see when you actually got your license in the first place?

This is true, and in the past (DVTK upgrade for example), the iLok asset was what AVID used to verify the upgrade.

But we don't actually know that this is what they will do in this instance.

In my AVID account it lists Complete Production Toolkit as a product I have bought and registered with them (I bought it new). If they decide to use that information rather that an iLok asset, then we're back to square one.

[sunburst79]

Avid has not announced the finer points of this exchange program and the product is not shipping for at least a month. So there's no reason to overly concerned.

Some points

Avid's always treated the CPTK and CPTK2 licenses as being the same. They have functioned the same. The only difference that I'm aware of is that the CPTK came with more plugs. The system behaves the same with either asset.

As far as who's eligible or the upgrade that could go either way. There's precedent for a open upgrade program and theres a precedent for a limited offer. It does seem they are concerned about people splitting HD assets from their hardware and selling them in the grey market. They would like to generate revenue from upgrade fees. How they will implement this program is anyone's guess.

They have stopped selling the CPTK in the AvidStore and Retail. Which is consistent with a discontinued product. There will be no clearance or close out pricing here.

[nigelpry]

To not allow CPTK owners to upgrade, but only CPTK2 owners, would be absolutely outrageous, for one specific reason.

The reason is ... CPTK2 was not an upgrade of CPTK1, there was never an upgrade path offered.

People who bought CPTK at the '1' stage, were not asked, nor given the opportunity, to 'upgrade' to CPTK2.

Functionally, the two are the same, except that certain plugins provided as part of CPTK1 were dropped from the CPTK2 lineup.

For example a licence for DigiTranslator was included in the CPTK1 bundle, because at that time OMF/AAF import and export was a premium feature. But when PT9 was released, this became a standard feature of PT, so the licence was no longer needed as part of the CPTK2 bundle.

TL Space Native Reverb was, I think, also dropped from the CPTK2 lineup, but we got it with CPTK1. Well I got it with the Music Production Toolkit, prior to upgrading to CPTK, but I believe it was included in CPTK1, which was a combination of MPTK and the DV Toolkit.

I cannot believe it to be true that CPTK1 owners will not be allowed to upgrade, if they choose. There would be absolutely no sense or logic to such a move, and it would undoubtedly inflame the current CPTK situation much further.

[ChazC]

Originally Posted by nigelpry

... and it would undoubtedly inflame the current CPTK situation much further.

Nigel wins the 'Understatement of the Month' award.

[Jon_Atkinson]

Thanks for chiming in Scott.

Originally Posted by sunburst79

Avid has not announced the finer points of this exchange program and the product is not shipping for at least a month. So there's no reason to overly concerned.

Understood, and I (like presumably many other professionals) will wait a couple of months before using PT11, until we're sure it's 100% ready for primetime.
However, given the contradictions from AVID specifically regarding whether CPTK1 will be eligible, this will mean either:
1) I will need to find $999 to upgrade to PT11HD at some point in the next (say) 6-12 months, or

2) In the same time frame I will need to find approx £3500 to get the HDN with Omni because otherwise there is no way to stay up to date with the CPTK features I require for my work, because there is *no* upgrade path at all for CPTK1 users, and I'll simply have to write off the rather large cost of purchasing CPTK.

That's the crux of it... It simply needs clarification.

Either way I'm giving money to AVID, it would simply be nice to know how much (because much as I'd like to say I can probably find £3500 in loose change down the back of my sofa, I think that's unlikely).... All other upgrades have been priced and explained, but not this.