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  #11  
Old 02-07-2020, 04:06 AM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools Maximum number allowed of latest MOTU Express 128s is 7 ??

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RAM issue? , I will buy some more DDR4 to max out MBoard. This pc is reserved strictly for Pro Tools with Omni HD, no other apps, little plugins that are rarely used so no "Plugin Hell" issues or extra software. With 7 MOTUs it works flawless. Very simple to manage the vintage midi gear with no need to touch or move any wires. One test i will try is moving one of my new synthesizers to this PC as the 8th USB and see what happens. That can at least ID if its a MOTU locking or Pro Tools issue. No problem using all 8 motu on MIDI OX app.

The hub uses 3.0 as the the master and 2.
0 for the slots. It is powered by wall transformer.
Moving usb connections directly to pc results in same issue.
That wall wart may not have enough power to safely drive 8 interfaces.
I'm still curious and you seem to duck the answer: how many external MIDI devices do you have?
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  #12  
Old 02-07-2020, 08:41 AM
Base12 Base12 is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools Maximum number allowed of latest MOTU Express 128s is 7 ??

I built this pc 6 years ago, has a X99A Asus in it.
I just ordered 64gb of DDR4 RAM; even though that might not be the cause. I read up on the Mio10 and I do need that 8th unit so I'm going to try one. If it works out, I may just replace them all. I did end up moving 3 modern synthesizers over and connecting them via usb to the hub. No problems. The 7 motu and 3 synths worked in pro.tools. It could well be as you said the motu driver just has conflicts with pro tools (8 work fine with MIDI OX) Thanks for the Mio info.
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  #13  
Old 02-07-2020, 08:54 AM
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Default Re: Pro Tools Maximum number allowed of latest MOTU Express 128s is 7 ??

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That wall wart may not have enough power to safely drive 8 interfaces.
Most definitely not enough. Some devices even want to be externally powered if they are alone in the USB buss. Unless it is something out of specs, pre-USBC i think is 7.5W which is way too little for 8 boxes. USB has always been a bad idea for anything but mice and keyboards
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  #14  
Old 02-07-2020, 10:16 AM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools Maximum number allowed of latest MOTU Express 128s is 7 ??

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Originally Posted by Base12 View Post
I built this pc 6 years ago, has a X99A Asus in it.
I just ordered 64gb of DDR4 RAM; even though that might not be the cause. I read up on the Mio10 and I do need that 8th unit so I'm going to try one. If it works out, I may just replace them all. I did end up moving 3 modern synthesizers over and connecting them via usb to the hub. No problems. The 7 motu and 3 synths worked in pro.tools. It could well be as you said the motu driver just has conflicts with pro tools (8 work fine with MIDI OX) Thanks for the Mio info.
PT is NOT the problem here. There's at least three problems going on: not enough ram, not enough power to take care of all 8 interfaces and MOTU's historic and continued lack of correct functionality with Windows.


Why do you NOT answer the question of how many synths you're trying to run? I'm trying to wrap my head around someone having that many as even big pros like Rudess, Junky XL and Elfman don't have that many MIDI capable external synths.
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  #15  
Old 02-07-2020, 03:37 PM
TNM TNM is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools Maximum number allowed of latest MOTU Express 128s is 7 ??

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Originally Posted by Base12 View Post
I built this pc 6 years ago, has a X99A Asus in it.
I just ordered 64gb of DDR4 RAM; even though that might not be the cause. I read up on the Mio10 and I do need that 8th unit so I'm going to try one. If it works out, I may just replace them all. I did end up moving 3 modern synthesizers over and connecting them via usb to the hub. No problems. The 7 motu and 3 synths worked in pro.tools. It could well be as you said the motu driver just has conflicts with pro tools (8 work fine with MIDI OX) Thanks for the Mio info.
it's not just PT.. motu won't update their windows drivers to have non emulated ports.. you should see what I mean when you choose a port, it will literally say the word emulated.
I am surprised 7 are working for you OK.. the main issue with emulated ports is timing.
Anyway, I have around 35 synths and I get by with 2 microlite, everything else is connected via USB (which is why i bought the hub).. I am going to change mine over now as I am using bootcamp along with OSX, and ditch the motus.

I guess you have a ton of older synths pre midi USB, which is understandable.

I don't like piggy backing the thru port so if all my synths needed a physical old school midi i/o I guess i'd need 35 ports myself. I like each synth to have it's own port also.
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  #16  
Old 02-07-2020, 04:33 PM
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Default Re: Pro Tools Maximum number allowed of latest MOTU Express 128s is 7 ??

Truth to be told, I am out of breath just thinking 35 MIDI devices needing their own port at the same time. How many hands you people are using when you actually play the instruments?
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  #17  
Old 02-07-2020, 05:48 PM
Base12 Base12 is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools Maximum number allowed of latest MOTU Express 128s is 7 ??

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it's not just PT.. motu won't update their windows drivers to have non emulated ports.. you should see what I mean when you choose a port, it will literally say the word emulated.
I am surprised 7 are working for you OK.. the main issue with emulated ports is timing.
Anyway, I have around 35 synths and I get by with 2 microlite, everything else is connected via USB (which is why i bought the hub).. I am going to change mine over now as I am using bootcamp along with OSX, and ditch the motus.

I guess you have a ton of older synths pre midi USB, which is understandable.

I don't like piggy backing the thru port so if all my synths needed a physical old school midi i/o I guess i'd need 35 ports myself. I like each synth to have it's own port also.
Yes they are all vintage non USB synthesizers and equipment on this PC. I'm buying a MioXL to test and likely replacing all the MOTUs with these.
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  #18  
Old 02-07-2020, 06:48 PM
Base12 Base12 is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools Maximum number allowed of latest MOTU Express 128s is 7 ??

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Truth to be told, I am out of breath just thinking 35 MIDI devices needing their own port at the same time. How many hands you people are using when you actually play the instruments?
imagine if you had 25 plugins. Your computer only allows 8 to playback at one time. Not good huh? But your composition uses 20 different sounds (chords, fx, hits, pads, drums, etc) . In this case you would be forced to record to audio at least 12 of those sounds in order to use the remaining 8 the computer allows. As you build the song you realize a few of those 12 sounds you were forced to record do not Fit well anymore in the Song. You cannot adjust the original sound anymore because it's audio, you have to erase it and redo it. By having all the vintage synthesizers able to Play back recorded midi channels live you are able to Hear your final raw composition without commiting any audio to disk. Just like you do now using plugins. This is why a single 8 channel midi patchbay won't work. You need three x 8 in this example.

Unlike plugins which use virtual cables, vintage synthesizers use 5 din midi cables. Every time you pull and push these cables in you risk damaging the solder connections inside the Synthesizer. Once connected you don't want to really start pulling them, so by having all of them connected on MIDI patchbays, you simply use pro tools Now to select the vintage equipment you want without touching cables. If anyone has more than 35 plugins combo of synth, fx , reverbs, delays, etc. then you should not be shocked by the same thing in hardware. If anyone has Kontact, you have more "synths" than Junkie XL has hardware. It is a similar set up except one is physical and the other is virtual with all the complexities taken care of in the box.
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  #19  
Old 02-07-2020, 08:32 PM
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Default Re: Pro Tools Maximum number allowed of latest MOTU Express 128s is 7 ??

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Truth to be told, I am out of breath just thinking 35 MIDI devices needing their own port at the same time. How many hands you people are using when you actually play the instruments?
It's not about them needing the port simultaneously, it's about having a permanent setup that *never* needs patch cabling.

This is what I do when i walk into my studio.

I turn the 4 wall switches o, everything external fires up. I turn the imac pro on.

I load my PT template if I am writing a new song.

I highlight any track in my template, hit the record monitor button and I can play that synth and I get live sound. When it comes time to actually record it to audio, they all have their own permanent input. Simple. The whole reason I want to go HDX is because I can use more than 32 ins in PT, as right now i have 32 ins via apollo PLUS another 44 analog ins being sub routed into the apollo. I just want every synth to have it's own channel permanently and with HDX I won't even need to record to audio, I can stay entirely in the midi domain if I want to.

My dream is 128 inputs into a HDX3 so every synth can use every output and be plugged in at all times,. as well as leaving some room for future synths.
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  #20  
Old 02-07-2020, 08:35 PM
TNM TNM is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools Maximum number allowed of latest MOTU Express 128s is 7 ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Base12 View Post
imagine if you had 25 plugins. Your computer only allows 8 to playback at one time. Not good huh? But your composition uses 20 different sounds (chords, fx, hits, pads, drums, etc) . In this case you would be forced to record to audio at least 12 of those sounds in order to use the remaining 8 the computer allows. As you build the song you realize a few of those 12 sounds you were forced to record do not Fit well anymore in the Song. You cannot adjust the original sound anymore because it's audio, you have to erase it and redo it. By having all the vintage synthesizers able to Play back recorded midi channels live you are able to Hear your final raw composition without commiting any audio to disk. Just like you do now using plugins. This is why a single 8 channel midi patchbay won't work. You need three x 8 in this example.

Unlike plugins which use virtual cables, vintage synthesizers use 5 din midi cables. Every time you pull and push these cables in you risk damaging the solder connections inside the Synthesizer. Once connected you don't want to really start pulling them, so by having all of them connected on MIDI patchbays, you simply use pro tools Now to select the vintage equipment you want without touching cables. If anyone has more than 35 plugins combo of synth, fx , reverbs, delays, etc. then you should not be shocked by the same thing in hardware. If anyone has Kontact, you have more "synths" than Junkie XL has hardware. It is a similar set up except one is physical and the other is virtual with all the complexities taken care of in the box.
exactly...

FWIW, Apollos can still monitor 64 ins with PT, as console is it's own mixer.. it can only record 32 at a time into PT but you can save "pt input sets" and switch between them. I don't know of other interfaces that do that.
But with HDX there is no need to ever record to audio as the inputs are delay compensated alongside playback tracks, so this is the ultimate for me if I can ever get to it. It's like a giant digital mixer without taking anywhere nearly the same space, and having a much broader FX range.
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