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  #1  
Old 07-02-2006, 02:36 AM
musicsup musicsup is offline
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Default Best way to mix in surround via anything LE?

Is this possible?

I have a Mackie 400F, and can mix in surround, was wondering, if any, the cheapest possible way to use PT LE and mix in surround?

Also, while at it, can I use LE with MacIntel computers yet?

Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 07-02-2006, 02:37 AM
musicsup musicsup is offline
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Default Re: Best way to mix in surround via anything LE?

I should add, what hardware would be needed if this is at all possible!

Cheers!
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  #3  
Old 07-02-2006, 03:26 AM
Phil Jeffers Phil Jeffers is offline
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Default Re: Best way to mix in surround via anything LE?

Buy Digital Performer... that's what I've done to mix in surround since Digidesign won't (for some strange reason) provide any support for surround mixing within Pro Tools LE, despite me paying several thousand dollars for their LE software, hardware & DV Toolkit bundles. Digital Performer is a fantastic application for Macintosh only (just stop and think about that for a second). Another application that provides surround support is Nuendo. Personally, I can't warrant spending 10's of thousands on Digi HD PCI core cards, when I can buy a Waves APA-44 box(s) for a third of the price & run Waves plugs off that. The future is Native & companies like MOTU realised that long time ago...

P.S. I love Pro Tools and use it whenever possible (i.e. for stereo tracklaying & mixing)
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  #4  
Old 07-02-2006, 11:03 AM
musicsup musicsup is offline
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Default Re: Best way to mix in surround via anything LE?

Thanks.

Will give that some thinking. So there is no way at all? Do you have to buy the top of the line stuff? At what price points are those tools? TDM? Do you think this will change at all any time in the future or near future?

Many musicians or composers are now indi and write music say for games, not movies, so why no surround support, then again could this change with new LE hardware? If so, when?

Thanks again.
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  #5  
Old 07-02-2006, 06:36 PM
Phil Jeffers Phil Jeffers is offline
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Default Re: Best way to mix in surround via anything LE?

Hi, yes - I think Digidesign will have to provide surround support with a future LE release since so many people are switching to other native DAW's that do provide surround without locking you into paying tens of thousands on hardware that may well be redundant in a few years. Look at Digi's current line of legacy products... you can't use beyond ver. 6.4.

With a 001, 002 or 002R you can assign 6 analog outputs to a surround array, however there's no panners available to control their placement, so you can only do pairs of stereo, which is a workaround of sorts, but not any solution in my mind.

In Australian dollars I would need to spend minimum $50,000 to get a reasonable TDM system to get surround support. I have paid one tenth of that for MOTU software, PCI-424, interfaces to have full surround capability. As mentioned, I still prefer Pro Tools for its simplicity and power.

Hundreds upon hundreds of Digi customers have walked over to Nuendo and other apps for this very reason.

Good luck with it... If you're a Mac lover, check out Digital Performer - they don't lock you into outrageously expensive hardware that's made in China just to make their software work.
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  #6  
Old 07-02-2006, 10:08 PM
colinmansfield colinmansfield is offline
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Default Re: Best way to mix in surround via anything LE?

If you make the move to Digital Performer, you have the added benefit that DP will use your Digi hardware (002, 002 Rack), and you can keep PT LE around for the stuff it's best at -- IMO, editing and finalizing mixed tracks. DP is great for composition using samples and loops, does good recording, has a higher track limit than PT LE, has had surround support for quite some time and has better MIDI editing than PT (although still not quite as intuitive as Studio Vision Pro, which is ironic -- I heard that Dave Oppenheim who founded Opcode, was working with Digi on their MIDI). PT LE does seem to have the edge in massaging already recorded audio, again, IMO. My latest album was composed and mixed in DP. When everything sounded as good as it could, i moved the mixes to PT LE to assemble the album and do the final "mastering." (in quotes because I am not a mastering engineer, although I can come fairly close...) That's just my way of working -- bear in mind that many successful people compose in PT and many others master in DP. For surround work though, DP is a great choice. As would be Logic and others (although DP is half the price of Logic Pro...) And Dp will work with almost any audio interfaces out there for the Mac if you decide not to keep your Digi hardware after all, or want/need more I/O later on.

Quote:
Hi, yes - I think Digidesign will have to provide surround support with a future LE release since so many people are switching to other native DAW's that do provide surround without locking you into paying tens of thousands on hardware that may well be redundant in a few years. Look at Digi's current line of legacy products... you can't use beyond ver. 6.4.

With a 001, 002 or 002R you can assign 6 analog outputs to a surround array, however there's no panners available to control their placement, so you can only do pairs of stereo, which is a workaround of sorts, but not any solution in my mind.

In Australian dollars I would need to spend minimum $50,000 to get a reasonable TDM system to get surround support. I have paid one tenth of that for MOTU software, PCI-424, interfaces to have full surround capability. As mentioned, I still prefer Pro Tools for its simplicity and power.

Hundreds upon hundreds of Digi customers have walked over to Nuendo and other apps for this very reason.

Good luck with it... If you're a Mac lover, check out Digital Performer - they don't lock you into outrageously expensive hardware that's made in China just to make their software work.
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  #7  
Old 07-02-2006, 11:27 PM
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kelsey kelsey is offline
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Default Re: Best way to mix in surround via anything LE?

Quote:


With a 001, 002 or 002R you can assign 6 analog outputs to a surround array, however there's no panners available to control their placement, so you can only do pairs of stereo, which is a workaround of sorts, but not any solution in my mind.



You can use 6 sends to send to the outputs, giving you individual levels for all 6 channels. It aint pretty, and included all in one, but it works.

Peace
K
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  #8  
Old 07-03-2006, 01:52 AM
Kuba Pietrzak Kuba Pietrzak is offline
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Default Re: Best way to mix in surround via anything LE?

This was the only way to do surround mixes with ProTools 5.0 and earliers...
There was not surrounds even in TDM versions, but surround mixes were done at that times...
BEst
Kuba
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  #9  
Old 07-03-2006, 06:51 PM
Phil Jeffers Phil Jeffers is offline
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Default Re: Best way to mix in surround via anything LE?

Digidesign please provide a surround bundle for Pro Tools LE. Charge us anything you like (well, maybe not too much!). Waves and other vendors could then do Native versions of their surround tools also, so everyone wins...

Music producers operating from project studios and home (this is the new reality as we all know) may try out mixing in surround for HD DVD releases and all the post guys (like my self) that tracklay and pre-mix at home can do some serious work before taking it into a million dollar mix theatre.

Believe it or not, I didn't want to swap platforms (purchase MOTU DP), but they provide what I need at the price I can afford. I'll end up purchasing a full HD rig down the road when my business expands, however having the choice to tracklay and mix within Pro Tools LE should be a reality. Obviously we couldn't use a MBox, but for 002, 002R & a future 003, please support the analog outs with surround panners, as well as 5.1 internal bussing.

For other guys ADC is the most important feature for future LE versions, I don't want to take away from that, or diminish their requests in any way.

I'll submit a Feature Request Form on this also.

The days of "LE will never have surround" are over, Native DAW's have some serious horsepower now and that will only grow exponentially.

Thanks for DV Toolkit 2... Now let's look at Surround Toolkit 1!

Best regards,

Phil Jeffers
Sound Designer and Mixer
Pro Tools user for 9 years
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  #10  
Old 07-03-2006, 11:43 PM
hki hki is offline
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Default Re: Best way to mix in surround via anything LE?

[QUOTE]
If you make the move to Digital Performer, you have the added benefit that DP will use your Digi hardware (002, 002 Rack), and you can keep PT LE around for the stuff it's best at -- IMO, editing and finalizing mixed tracks. DP is great for composition using samples and loops, does good recording, has a higher track limit than PT LE, has had surround support for quite some time and has better MIDI editing than PT.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have been using PT for about year. If I want to get Digital Performer are we talking software only or is any hardware involved other that mine 002 and what version?
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