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  #51  
Old 04-26-2018, 07:48 AM
WernerF WernerF is offline
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Default Re: Is UAD worth it?

There is still no substitute for a DSP DAW. DSP may be dying but that is most likely because folks are buying Native systems more than they are buying DSP based systems. Obviously, Native systems are way cheaper and that is driving the market. The latency situation is still an issue that has not been solved on a Native based system. UAD only makes this latency situation a bigger tracking problem. Sure, the plugins sound great but the added latency cannot be ignored. It obviously makes tracking through the plugins an impossibility. This has been born out in countless posts in this thread. A DSP based DAW is still the only way to work in a “mix as you go” analog fashion. There are simply things that you cannot do on a Native system yet. Computers are simply not powerful enough yet. Maybe someday but not today yet. If you are willing to make the compromises then have at it. If not, then wait and stick with a DSP based system. Unfortunately, UAD DSP based plugins are not the answer to latency problems. They, unfortunately, make it worse.
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  #52  
Old 04-26-2018, 08:39 AM
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Southsidemusic Southsidemusic is offline
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Default Re: Is UAD worth it?

We track with UAD-2 plugins thru Apollo interfaces all day long and not once have anyone complained about latency so if you need to track with UA plugins you need a Apollo unit. The twin duo mk2 is a GREAT well priced unit which should satisfy anyone who makes quality music. No biggie if you wanna use your expensive plugins with low latency (basically unnoticable) here.
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  #53  
Old 04-26-2018, 08:49 PM
TNM TNM is offline
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Default Re: Is UAD worth it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Southsidemusic View Post
We track with UAD-2 plugins thru Apollo interfaces all day long and not once have anyone complained about latency so if you need to track with UA plugins you need a Apollo unit. The twin duo mk2 is a GREAT well priced unit which should satisfy anyone who makes quality music. No biggie if you wanna use your expensive plugins with low latency (basically unnoticable) here.
I know we disagree on this but i even have UA conforming their newer MK2 plugins are not ideal to track through,..

This is why i sort of label APollo as a scam, unless you use the generation 1 non upsampled plugins.

Ok, let me give you an example.. the fender guitar emu is just under 3ms latency on it's own, whether at 48 or 96k, cause in this case the latency samples double at 96k so effective latency is the same.

so even if you were tracking at 1.1ms roundtrip at 96k through apollo (2.3 at 44k), by adding that one amp you are 4ms.

Still acceptable, agreed.. But it's 5.2ms at 44K.. that's getting above many native thunderbolt solutions.

and then, we add a MK LA2A and 1176 to the same track.. there's another 2ms at 96K.. or more, at 44K

UA claim you can track with 4 plugins with zero latency but it's ONLY the old plugins that are not upsampled.

I have begged them to enable a checkbox to disable oversampling for the new plugins during monitoring so they do not add latency, and it continues to fall on deaf ears. If it's for monitoring only what's the big deal? At record time, if recording wet, we could enable oversample then.

The reality is, if you are at 44 or 48K and tracking a vocal through a unison pre amp, a dual compressor combo and an EQ.. just that, but using the UA plugins made in the last 5 years, you will be at 8MS RTL.

In Logic, unfortunately PT does not perform well enough so cant do thus.. I can actually disable console, disable input delay compensation.. and have a 4ms roundtrip through apollo at 44K..
Through Logic's mixer.. and add 100 native zero latency plugins..

and have no issues at all.

Logic does it EASILY even on my macbook, cubase gets there but at 64 samples not 32, and Pt can't even get close..

Point is, for a really really powerful computer, native IS viable in a good DAW that has proper low latency performance..

DSP is very useful for PT cause of it's low latency issues.

BUT, i am routinely at 8ms, 8.8 even, with my apollo.. which is terrible in my opinion.. just cause i like to use the good plugins LOL.

Furthermore, what I have tried to explain to others.. if you have say a 32 track mix playing from pro tools, audio and VI tracks right, out of the apollo monitors, and have incoming audio like external synths or real instruments, whatever, playing alongside it in console, and use the newer UA effects to monitor the incoming signals, they will be out of time by whatever the latency is, with the content coming out of PT itself.. UA confirmed this in an email also.

The one REAL dsp solution, where even if there is latency per plugin, is HDX.. because it's integrated and all playback between external signals and PT tracks is time aligned perfectly.. furthermore whatever latency is on each individual track, PT tells you as you go along.. so you always know where you are at.

As far as plugin quality, UA kills it.. this is why they get away with their false claims of 4 plugins without additional latency. There are about 10 plugins out of the 100+ that can be used in apollo without latency LOL.
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  #54  
Old 04-27-2018, 11:13 AM
WernerF WernerF is offline
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Default Re: Is UAD worth it?

Exactly!! The real DSP solution is HDX. Southsidemusic has completely ignored the point about “mixing as you go”. Or he hasn’t read the entire post. Having to re-do your entire mix when you switch back to Pro Tools after using the Apollo mixer is jumping through hoops that certainly have nothing to do with “mixing as you go”. Also, if you don’t use the Apollo unit and mixer there is no way that you can put anything on the Master Bus channel to achieve a limited mix as you track with a Native based system.
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  #55  
Old 04-27-2018, 05:55 PM
sdmaas sdmaas is offline
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Default Re: Is UAD worth it?

I bought a UAD-2 Solo used for $150 (included was the full 1176 collection, LA-2A Legacy, Pultec Pro Legacy and RealVerbPro among others). This was the best investment EVER. I have every Waves plug-in that one needs and not a single Waves plug-in ever gave me the feeling of the UAD-2 stock plugins. The "recording with plugins" deal doesn't make sense to me since all the modeling can be done afterwards, but I have found some "talent" to need an anecdotal push while recording. In those cases I am grateful for the DSP plugins I have managed to use from Waves.

I was stubborn and refused to shell out the dough for UAD before, but I regret waiting 10 years to realize the money was worth it. That being said, there are so many other plugin companies that hold their weight too. Waves just has the best marketing campaign.
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  #56  
Old 04-27-2018, 09:17 PM
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mikeyman mikeyman is offline
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Default Re: Is UAD worth it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdmaas View Post
I bought a UAD-2 Solo used for $150 (included was the full 1176 collection, LA-2A Legacy, Pultec Pro Legacy and RealVerbPro among others). This was the best investment EVER. I have every Waves plug-in that one needs and not a single Waves plug-in ever gave me the feeling of the UAD-2 stock plugins. The "recording with plugins" deal doesn't make sense to me since all the modeling can be done afterwards, but I have found some "talent" to need an anecdotal push while recording. In those cases I am grateful for the DSP plugins I have managed to use from Waves.

I was stubborn and refused to shell out the dough for UAD before, but I regret waiting 10 years to realize the money was worth it. That being said, there are so many other plugin companies that hold their weight too. Waves just has the best marketing campaign.
no kidding the UA plugins sound a lot better wowthat was a good buy was that on ebay? Do you have a copy of the CLA compressors from Waves.I wonder how they stack up against the 1176 form UA
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  #57  
Old 04-27-2018, 09:22 PM
TNM TNM is offline
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Default Re: Is UAD worth it?

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Originally Posted by mikeyman View Post
no kidding the UA plugins sound a lot better wowthat was a good buy was that on ebay? Do you have a copy of the CLA compressors from Waves.I wonder how they stack up against the 1176 form UA
i promise you there is no comparison.. cla compressors, with possible exception of bluey, are an abomination. SO bad. Worst emulation they ever did.

UAD ones are SO good.. this is what makes it hard.. so many amazing UAD plugins.. the pre amps are incredible and the compressors generally are too. Same with the reverbs.. and so nice to not see PT meter move when you have 50 UA effects in a session
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  #58  
Old 04-27-2018, 09:29 PM
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mikeyman mikeyman is offline
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Default Re: Is UAD worth it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TNM View Post
i promise you there is no comparison.. cla compressors, with possible exception of bluey, are an abomination. SO bad. Worst emulation they ever did.

UAD ones are SO good.. this is what makes it hard.. so many amazing UAD plugins.. the pre amps are incredible and the compressors generally are too. Same with the reverbs.. and so nice to not see PT meter move when you have 50 UA effects in a session
I seeyea nice to be free of CPU worries.But I have heard there are two versions of those UA plugins.Did you upgrade to the better versions.I think the UA guy told me 100$ more per plug to upgrade
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  #59  
Old 04-27-2018, 09:46 PM
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mikeyman mikeyman is offline
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Default Re: Is UAD worth it?

forgive me for being stupid but when you guys speak of DSP DAW are you talking about running the UA plugins from a PCI-e card? is that what that means.I have been thinking of getting a PCI-e card for plugins.For me I don't think i'll be tracking thru plugins
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  #60  
Old 04-27-2018, 10:19 PM
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YYR123 YYR123 is offline
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Default Re: Is UAD worth it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TNM View Post
i promise you there is no comparison.. cla compressors, with possible exception of bluey, are an abomination. SO bad. Worst emulation they ever did.
I don’t know about the worst, but there isn’t a comparison, I however used to use them to track b/c they have pretty good native Latency specs, iirc

Then I would switch to UAD for mixing



Quote:
Originally Posted by TNM View Post
UAD ones are SO good.. ...and so nice to not see PT meter move when you have 50 UA effects in a session

Yes but it come at a price (Latency and $$$) which is ok....it is either worth it for you or it isn’t - it’s ok either way.
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