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  #111  
Old 12-09-2014, 08:29 AM
nerd513 nerd513 is offline
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Default Re: Love em or Hate Waves finally puts DLS bundles on sale

so because u did a screen capture u proved something? 8ms is a lot of latency i would never be able to use that. I never said u cant put a native plug in on a track and hit record i said it doesnt work properly. acceptable to me would be the latency u get running thru a pre amp or any other out board gear. thats what u get with dsp. 8ms of latency really??? u record like that??? thats cwazy.
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  #112  
Old 12-09-2014, 09:11 AM
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Emcha_audio Emcha_audio is offline
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Default Re: Love em or Hate Waves finally puts DLS bundles on sale

Considering that for the vast majority of people, studies have shown that they can't perceive latency under 10-12 ms.. so if you can perceive anything under 4 ms as you've claimed, then you my friend either are a dog or you got bionics ears implanted from a dog

And yes I record like that for smaller projects and no one has ever complained, and a lot of those I worked with have no problem complaining about anything (even the color of my background screen that they don't see when they sing), so go figure.
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  #113  
Old 12-09-2014, 09:18 AM
nerd513 nerd513 is offline
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Default Re: Love em or Hate Waves finally puts DLS bundles on sale

im not a dog but i do notice latency. I normally use LLM on a native system because 128 is a little to much latency for me. but hey to each his own i just hope u realize there is a huge difference between 1.6ms and 8ms and to claim its the same or even comparable is spreading false information and some poor sap might actually believe u and trust ur advice
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  #114  
Old 12-09-2014, 10:15 AM
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Default Re: Love em or Hate Waves finally puts DLS bundles on sale

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Originally Posted by nerd513 View Post
i do notice latency. I normally use LLM on a native system because 128 is a little to much latency for me

128 @ ??? 44.1 or 96?
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  #115  
Old 12-09-2014, 10:46 AM
propower propower is offline
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Default Re: Love em or Hate Waves finally puts DLS bundles on sale

First off - there is NO WRONG answer here (save arrogance).

All latencies up to a pretty big number are useable and are used by tons of folk - from bedroom novice to many full timers right here. I made NO judgement other than saying the tolerance (acceptability) of any given latency is a purely personal choice.

I also stated my particular preference. I have done extensive testing with this and have a full analog monitoring chain available as a reference. I do sparse productions with the focus on acoustic instruments and vocals. Comb filtering (Vocals and fingerstyle acoustic guitar are my main activities) is clearly audible at latency above 3ms (once you have the analog reference to A/B). No dogs ears required! Doesn't mean it can't be used - just means its there and is audible.
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  #116  
Old 12-09-2014, 11:34 AM
Barry Johns Barry Johns is offline
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Default Re: Love em or Hate Waves finally puts DLS bundles on sale

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Originally Posted by nerd513 View Post
im not a dog but i do notice latency. I normally use LLM on a native system because 128 is a little to much latency for me. but hey to each his own i just hope u realize there is a huge difference between 1.6ms and 8ms and to claim its the same or even comparable is spreading false information and some poor sap might actually believe u and trust ur advice
At 44.1 at a 128 buffer would not be acceptable to me for many things, however computers these days can handle a lot at 64. It really depends on where in the mix recording through plugins is manageable at even 128. That being said you don't always need to resort to something as extreme as LLM. Disabling latency heavy plugns can help as well. The only types of plugins I found I typically feel compelled to use are Verbs, Delays at times, and Compressors. The need I think we would all agree on are the ones that enable the artist to get their best performance. That being said, the reason I use HD TDM is so I KNOW I can always track through the plugins I want and never have an issue for my workflow.

I am impressed with what can be done with HDN at 96, where from what I've read, enables tracking through native plugins at just about any stage with unrecognizable latency with just an I7 MacPro!
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Last edited by Barry Johns; 12-09-2014 at 05:07 PM.
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  #117  
Old 12-09-2014, 12:36 PM
nerd513 nerd513 is offline
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Default Re: Love em or Hate Waves finally puts DLS bundles on sale

luckily for u jokers in a few years most native plug ins will also have "live" versions which will actually enable u to do what HD users have been doing for years and u falsely claim to be doing already. until then good luck and i feel sorry for anybody that pays u money to record like that. ur much better off just recording dry using LLM than trying to force a square into a circle. im going to rest my case because obviously reality isnt something some of u are willing to accept!!!
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  #118  
Old 12-09-2014, 05:06 PM
Barry Johns Barry Johns is offline
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Default Re: Love em or Hate Waves finally puts DLS bundles on sale

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Originally Posted by nerd513 View Post
luckily for u jokers in a few years most native plug ins will also have "live" versions which will actually enable u to do what HD users have been doing for years and u falsely claim to be doing already. until then good luck and i feel sorry for anybody that pays u money to record like that. ur much better off just recording dry using LLM than trying to force a square into a circle. im going to rest my case because obviously reality isnt something some of u are willing to accept!!!
If you ever find yourself taking a vacation to Orlando, FL, please let me know, and I will happily show you how to easily track through native plugins with no perceivable latency. I'll even buy you dinner just for the opportunity to have a one on one conversation. Then you can tell me what you think. We can also review using RTAS plugins as a workflow in HD TDM, which I've been doing now for over 8 years. Come on down, yaw!
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  #119  
Old 12-09-2014, 05:15 PM
Barry Johns Barry Johns is offline
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Default Re: Love em or Hate Waves finally puts DLS bundles on sale

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Originally Posted by Emcha_audio View Post
at 7 or 8 ms a finely trained ear might perceive the combfiltering, even more so if there's no delay or reverb used at the same time. But the average musician/signer wouldn't, at least that's been my experience ymmv.
Very few people I've every dealt with would perceive a latency of 8ms. I realize that there are a small percentage that would, but very, very few in my experience FWIW.

I do respect those that can, seriously.

This is why I'm on a TDM system, I never wanted to ever have to deal with it at all. But to for the guy to imply that it can't be done, that's beyond insane. Ton's of people do it every day for the typical home project studio. If it were that big of a deal, UA Apollo's would be selling at a much more rapid pace than they are. They are selling good, don't get me wrong. When you look at the massive UA Apollo thread over at GS, not too many of those folks even went with the UA Apollo due to recording through plugins.

Again, all that being said, no way I would rely on a Native system today, especially considering TDM systems can be purchased for so cheap. A guy here was selling something like an 8 Core Mac, 192, HD2, with PTHD 8 for like 1100 bucks, which is a crazy deal, I may not have that exactly right, but again, crazy deal whatever it was!
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  #120  
Old 12-09-2014, 05:26 PM
nerd513 nerd513 is offline
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Default Re: Love em or Hate Waves finally puts DLS bundles on sale

i wish i was wrong i really do but i know for a fact im not wrong. Im just glad i was able to get my HD system for under 2k because the 20k was not gonna happen. So i guess HDX did something good. drove the price down on the best recording option available today.
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