Buffer errors in Pro Tools LE; Solution to VIA OHCI issue

[CJMD]

I'll apologize beforehand for not providing a Sandra report, although I'm under a time-constraint here in posting and I'd like to first put forth one factor that I'm mainly concerned about in my hardware setup.

I'm currently using the 002 Rack with a MusicXPC M4x notebook PC, and I've been having serious problems with buffer errors and poor plugin and MIDI performance. For example, the Click plugin in Pro Tools does not run smoothly at all. Taps may stop for several seconds, then abruptly continue at an extremely fast pace, as if the computer is trying to catch up with a backlog of commands. When I play back MIDI, sometimes I may only here one note out of ten recorded, or the computer will stall on one point for a VERY LONG TIME before moving on. Even regular audio playback and recording is hampered by a strange necessity for a 1024 MB H/W buffer size to prevent buffer errors. I've gone through troubleshooting. I've tried many of the configuration tips to optimize Pro Tools performance (and this on a laptop that came already preconfigured for this exact purpose,) and I've tried many things to rule out the possible culprits, which I won't list here yet.

It seemed to me after a while that the problem must lie with the firewire cardbus I'm using (a compaq PCMCIA card, model no. CPQFWCB-F. It came with the laptop.) To see if that was the problem, I purchased a couple of 6-4 pin firewire adapters for use with the direct 4-pin port on the laptop. I should be receiving those today. However, now, I'm not sure that will help.

I checked your forums last night and today, and I came across two threads in which buffer error issues were linked to a VIA OHCI Compliant IEEE 1394 Host Controller, which just so happens to be the host controller used by my firewire cardbus, and unfortunately, also seems to be the host controller used by the direct 4-pin port on my laptop. I'm asking for advice as to what to do about this, because the only recourse that comes to mind now is, buy a Digidesign-approved PCMCIA firewire card, but according to a page on Digidesign, PCMCIA cards are not tested.

EDIT: Ok, I've received the adapters, and tried them. They do not work! That was expected, once I realized the host controllers were the same.

EDIT: Sandra report. Somehow I thought this information was going to take an incredibly long time to gather. Thank goodness for software programs:

SiSoftware Sandra

System
Host Name : YOUR-E44B5C7C74
User : Isaiah44
Workgroup : WORKGROUP

Processor
Model : Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU T7200 @ 2.00GHz
Speed : 2.00GHz
Cores per Processor : 2 Unit(s)
Threads per Core : 1 Unit(s)
Type : Mobile, Dual-Core
Internal Data Cache : 2x 32kB, Synchronous, Write-Thru, 8-way, 64 byte line size
L2 On-board Cache : 4MB, ECC, Synchronous, ATC, 16-way, 64 byte line size, 2 threads sharing

System
System : MusicXPC M4_M4x
Platform Compliance : Intel Centrino Mobile Technology
Mainboard : COMPAL HEL8X
Bus(es) : PCI PCIe IMB PCMCIA CardBus USB FireWire/1394 i2c/SMBus
Multi-Processor (MP) Support : No
Multi-Processor Advanced PIC (APIC) : Yes
System BIOS : COMPAL 112B
Total Memory : 1.99GB DDR2

Chipset
Model : Compal Electronics 955XM/945GM/PM/GMS/940GML Express Processor to DRAM Controller
Front Side Bus Speed : 4x 166MHz (664MHz)
Total Memory : 2GB DDR2
Shared Memory : 8MB
Memory Bus Speed : 4x 166MHz (664MHz)

Video System
Adapter : Mobile Intel(R) 945GM Express Chipset Family (128MB, PCI, PS 2.0)

Physical Storage Devices
ST910021AS 100GB (SATA150, NCQ, 8MB Cache) : 93GB (C:) (D:)
MAT****A DVD-RAM UJ-850S (ATAPI33, DVD+-RW, CD-RW, 2MB Cache) : N/A (E:)

Logical Storage Devices
WinXPC (C:) : 28GB (NTFS) @ ST910021AS 100GB (SATA150, NCQ, 8MB Cache)
Library (D:) : 58GB (NTFS) @ ST910021AS 100GB (SATA150, NCQ, 8MB Cache)
CD-ROM/DVD (E:) : N/A @ MAT****A DVD-RAM UJ-850S (ATAPI33, DVD+-RW, CD-RW, 2MB Cache)

Peripherals
LPC Hub Controller 1 : Compal Electronics 82801GBM (ICH7-M) LPC Interface Controller
LPC Hub Controller 2 : Compal Electronics 82801G (ICH7 Family) SMBus Controller
Audio Device : Compal Electronics 82801G (ICH7 Family) High Definition Audio
Audio Codec : Realtek Semiconductor 883 High Definition Audio
Audio Codec : Lucent/Agere Systems (Was: AT&T MicroElectronics) ??? (1040)
Serial Port(s) : 1
USB Controller 1 : Compal Electronics 82801G (ICH7 Family) USB Universal Host Controller
USB Controller 2 : Compal Electronics 82801G (ICH7 Family) USB Universal Host Controller
USB Controller 3 : Compal Electronics 82801G (ICH7 Family) USB Universal Host Controller
USB Controller 4 : Compal Electronics 82801G (ICH7 Family) USB Universal Host Controller
USB Controller 5 : Compal Electronics 82801G (ICH7 Family) USB 2.0 Enhanced Host Controller
FireWire/1394 Controller 1 : Compal Electronics VT6306 VIA Fire II IEEE-1394 OHCI Link Layer Controller
CardBus/PCMCIA Controller 1 : ENE Technology CB-712/714 CardBus Controller
System SMBus Controller 1 : Intel 801xx/63xx SMBus

Network Services
Network Adapter : Realtek RTL8168/8111 PCI-E Gigabit Ethernet NIC - Packet Scheduler Miniport
Network Adapter : Intel(R) PRO/Wireless 3945ABG Network Connection - Packet Scheduler Miniport (Ethernet, 54Mbps)

Power Management
Mains (AC) Line Status : Off-Line
Battery No 1 : 84%

Operating System(s)
Windows System : Microsoft Windows XP (2002) Home 5.01.2600 (Service Pack 2)
Platform Compliance : x86

[spkguitar]

I'm currently using the 002 Rack with a MusicXPC M4x notebook PC, and I've been having serious problems with buffer errors and poor plugin and MIDI performance. For example, the Click plugin in Pro Tools does not run smoothly at all. Taps may stop for several seconds, then abruptly continue at an extremely fast pace, as if the computer is trying to catch up with a backlog of commands. When I play back MIDI, sometimes I may only here one note out of ten recorded, or the computer will stall on one point for a VERY LONG TIME before moving on. Even regular audio playback and recording is hampered by a strange necessity for a 1024 MB H/W buffer size to prevent buffer errors. I've gone through troubleshooting. I've tried many of the configuration tips to optimize Pro Tools performance (and this on a laptop that came already preconfigured for this exact purpose,) and I've tried many things to rule out the possible culprits, which I won't list here yet.

This sounds like the behavior when running a multi-core processor without having he Microsoft XP dual-core hotfix installed. So it seems your machine did not come as "preconfigured" as you might have thought. Try installing the hotfix. I would also definitely bring that up with Music XPC or the place that you bought it.

Keep in mind that there aren't any turnkey system providers that are officially supported by Digidesign. Many of them have been known to "exaggerate" their compatibility with Pro Tools.

Any other assistance is going to require that you post specs of the machine. Hard to help you when we're blind to the details.

[CJMD]

I guess this issue is more complicated than I thought. Well, at least this gives me hope that there are still possible solutions left.

Sandra report added.

EDIT: By the way. A few things that I've tried that come to mind:

The computer came preinstalled with two programs, Nero and PowerDVD. I uninstalled, and for a very short period afterwards that day, Pro Tools worked fine. Then I powered off the laptop, and the next day, the problems started all over again. I've also tried restoring the computer to factory settings, using Acronis True Image, and stripping every unneeded program. That did not help. I've defragmented the hard drive. Again, that didn't help. I've tried recording on both internal hard drives and an external hard drive. None of these changed the performance.

I've also tried installing Pro Tools ON the external hard drive, daisy chain connecting that through the DigiRack, to an older desktop with 1 GB of ram and an older, single core processor. Just in case it helps, here is the sandra report for the older desktop:

SiSoftware Sandra

System
Host Name : FAMILY
User : Family
Workgroup : WORKGROUP

Processor
Model : AMD Athlon(tm) 64 FX-55 Processor
Speed : 2.61GHz
Model Number : 4213
Cores per Processor : 1 Unit(s)
Threads per Core : 1 Unit(s)
Internal Data Cache : 64kB, Synchronous, Write-Back, 2-way, Exclusive, 64 byte line size
L2 On-board Cache : 1MB, ECC, Synchronous, Write-Back, 16-way, Exclusive, 64 byte line size

System
System : System manufacturer System name
Mainboard : ASUSTeK Computer INC. A8N-SLI DELUXE
Bus(es) : PCI PCIe IMB USB FireWire/1394 i2c/SMBus
Multi-Processor (MP) Support : No
Multi-Processor Advanced PIC (APIC) : Yes
System BIOS : Phoenix Technologies, LTD ASUS A8N-SLI DELUXE ACPI BIOS Revision 1805
Total Memory : 1GB DDR

Chipset
Model : AMD Athlon 64 / Opteron HyperTransport Technology Configuration
Front Side Bus Speed : 2x 1.00GHz (2.01GHz)
Total Memory : 1GB DDR
Memory Bus Speed : 2x 201MHz (402MHz)

Video System
Adapter : NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Series GPU (256MB DDR3, PCIe 1.00 x16, PS 3.0, VS 3.0)

Physical Storage Devices
WDC WD1500ADFD-00NLR1 150GB (SATA150, 3.5", 10000rpm, NCQ, 16MB Cache) : 140GB (C:)
WDC WD740GD-00FLA0 74GB (SATA150, 8MB Cache) : 69GB (D:)
AFT PRO - 9 CF (USB) : N/A (F:)
AFT PRO - 9 SD (USB) : N/A (G:)
AFT PRO - 9 SM/XD (USB) : N/A (H:)
AFT PRO - 9 MS (USB) : N/A (I:)
PLEXTOR DVDR PX-716A (ATAPI, DVD+-RW, CD-RW, 8MB Cache) : 442MB (E:)

Logical Storage Devices
System (C:) : 128GB (NTFS) @ WDC WD1500ADFD-00NLR1 150GB (SATA150, 3.5", 10000rpm, NCQ, 16MB Cache)
Storage (D:) : 69GB (NTFS) @ WDC WD740GD-00FLA0 74GB (SATA150, 8MB Cache)
Audio CD (E:) : 0bytes (CDFS) @ PLEXTOR DVDR PX-716A (ATAPI, DVD+-RW, CD-RW, 8MB Cache)
3.5" 1.44MB (A:) : N/A
Removable Drive (F:) : N/A @ AFT PRO - 9 CF (USB)
Removable Drive (G:) : N/A @ AFT PRO - 9 SD (USB)
Removable Drive (H:) : N/A @ AFT PRO - 9 SM/XD (USB)
Removable Drive (I:) : N/A @ AFT PRO - 9 MS (USB)

Peripherals
LPC Hub Controller 1 : ASUS nForce4 PCI to ISA Bridge
LPC Hub Controller 2 : ASUS nForce4 SMBus
Audio Device : Creative Labs SB0350 Audigy ZS
Serial Port(s) : 1
Parallel Port(s) : 1
USB Controller 1 : ASUS nForce4 USB Controller
USB Controller 2 : ASUS nForce4 USB 2.0 Controller
FireWire/1394 Controller 1 : Creative Labs Audigy 2 Firewire Controller
FireWire/1394 Controller 2 : ASUS TSB43AB22 1394a-2000 OHCI PHY/Link-Layer Controller
System SMBus Controller 1 : nVidia MCP2+ SMBus 1
System SMBus Controller 2 : nVidia MCP2+ SMBus 2

Printers and Faxes
Printer : Microsoft XPS Document Writer (600x600, Colour)
Printer : Microsoft Office Document Image Writer Driver (300x300, Colour)
Printer : HP Deskjet 3840 Series (USB, Colour)

Network Services
Network Adapter : NVIDIA nForce Networking Controller #2 - Packet Scheduler Miniport
Network Adapter : Marvell Yukon 88E8001/8003/8010 PCI Gigabit Ethernet Controller #2 - Packet Scheduler Miniport
Network Adapter : Belkin N1 Wireless Desktop Card - Packet Scheduler Miniport (Ethernet, 54Mbps)

Power Management
Mains (AC) Line Status : On-Line

Operating System(s)
Windows System : Microsoft Windows XP (2002) Professional 5.01.2600 (Service Pack 2)
Platform Compliance : x86

Performance Tips
Warning 100 : Large memory sizes should be made of Registered/Buffered memory.
Tip 2546 : Large memory modules should be ECC/Parity.
Tip 2 : Double-click tip or press Enter while a tip is selected for more information about the tip.




I created a session on this external hard drive. Pro Tools worked just fine this way on the desktop. However, when I took this daisy chain configuration and transferred it over to the laptop (I disconnected the DigiRack from the desktop and connected it to the laptop,) and pulled up Pro Tools and a session again from the external hard drive, it did not work at all. I've checked the task manager on the M4X, and from what I can tell, the computer is using much less ram and CPU usage than on the desktop. So based on all this, I'm pretty confident that it has nothing to do with the ram, the hard drives, the cpu, or the Pro Tools hardware or software, for any "traditional" reasons at least. I still need run the hotfix, and probably look more thoroughly at your troubleshooting tips.

[spkguitar]

Physical Storage Devices
ST910021AS 100GB (SATA150, NCQ, 8MB Cache) : 93GB (C:) (D:)

You've only got one hard drive listed there, and it appears that it is partitioned?

Pro Tools needs a separate physical disk for audio sessions. Running sessions from the system disk, even if partitioned, can/will cause buffer errors. You need an external firewire drive.

FireWire/1394 Controller 1 : Compal Electronics VT6306 VIA Fire II IEEE-1394 OHCI Link Layer Controller

THAT is definitely a problem. I'm not sure how Music XPC can get away claiming that computer is compatible with Pro Tools, because it isn't. At all. (at least not with the Digidesign firewire interfaces).

I've had luck with this Belkin adapter in the past. You might want to try it. Make sure you actually disable the onboard one, though, either in the BIOS or from the Windows Device Manager.

Network Services
Network Adapter : Realtek RTL8168/8111 PCI-E Gigabit Ethernet NIC - Packet Scheduler Miniport
Network Adapter : Intel(R) PRO/Wireless 3945ABG Network Connection - Packet Scheduler Miniport (Ethernet, 54Mbps)

You definitely should disable those from the device manager when using Pro Tools, especially the wireless card.

[CJMD]

The external firewire drive was disconnected when I created the sandra report. I'll have to show the specs on that as well, I guess. I tried disabling the network adapter. All I got was an error message when booting up Pro Tools and no better performance. According to MusicXPC (Who I strangely haven't contacted yet, primarily because I can't explain a problem very well when I don't know what it is,) the computer is specifically configured to prevent the internet connection from interfering with recording software performance, and they do not advise you to disable it (if you can trust them at all at this point.)

[CJMD]

Here's the FW cardbus information:

VT6306 VIA Fire II IEEE-1394 OHCI Link Layer Controller

Same as the 4-pin port.

[spkguitar]

According to MusicXPC (Who I strangely haven't contacted yet, primarily because I can't explain a problem very well when I don't know what it is,) the computer is specifically configured to prevent the internet connection from interfering with recording software performance, and they do not advise you to disable it (if you can trust them at all at this point.)

As an experienced Pro Tools user, I can tell you with a certainty that they are incorrect about the network card and interference with Pro Tools. As far as I am aware, and again, this is as a Pro Tools user with experience running Pro Tools on laptop computers, there is no such "configuration". On most desktop systems, it isn't a problem (I keep my desktop network card enabled all the time), but on the laptop;

1. I don't ever use the hard wired ethernet controller, so I disable it completely (it's totally unnecessary if you aren't using it and takes up resources)
2. I only use the wireless card for networking
3. When using Pro Tools I must disable the wireless card or I get constant buffer errors

I tried disabling the network adapter. All I got was an error message when booting up Pro Tools and no better performance.

That sounds like the old initial version of 7.3 error. Are you using just plain 7.3? No updates? If so, you need to make sure to get the latest CS Updates for that version; they definitely solve that problem, as well as a host of other, more serious ones.

[CJMD]

OK. So. I installed the CS update. The network card error stopped. I then went through the msconfig troubleshoot. That only seemed to make matters worse. THEN, I installed the dualcore hotfix, and during a fleeting moment of joy, Pro Tools WORKED, much better, although still not enough, which was expected since I still need to replace the FW bus. Afterwards, I uninstalled Pro Tools, plugins, drivers and all, defragmented the hard drive again, and reinstalled Pro Tools, and then reinstalled the CS update. Pro Tools still worked fine. The internet card, disabled or enabled, didn't seem to affect anything. By the way, when I say all this, I mean I tried my "click test." If even the click plugin doesn't work, I don't bother checking anything else. So for instance, before the hotfix, I could only get the click plugin to play at 1024 MB buffer size, and still with glitches and a counter that ran choppy and glitchy as well. After the hotfix, the click plugin would play just fine and smoothly, along with the counter, at 512 MB buffer size, but no lower.

After this, I set the msconfig back to Normal Setup, just to see how that would change things, and restarted the computer. Pro Tools went back to its old lousy ways, so I thought, "Ok, I'll just go through the deactivation process on the msconfig again." So I did. And restarted. And Pro Tools, strangly, didn't start working again. There's nothing different! Why are the improvements suddenly dashed to oblivion?!

This is very similar to what happened when I uninstalled Nero and PowerDVD. Pro Tools suddenly worked fine! ...For a short period.

Any explanations?

[xodiac]

i dont have an explanation for the symptoms you are going through, and i cant tell you what will work... however, after that many uninstalls and reinstalls of software, and still having problems like this, i would start to suspect there may be a registry problem. check your hardware/device manager and see if theres any issues there. if not, i would gather up all your windows, system, and hardware drivers into a neat pile of cds, and start contemplating the idea of completely starting from scratch - reformatting the (c:) OS harddrive, reinstalling windows, loading device drivers, then onto protools. try something like installing the microsoft hotfix 'before' protools. get windows set up and configured first before introducing the PT software. theres many things that can go on inside microsoft windows that noone here will ever know about (unless we have microsoft programmers lurking here!). ive personally built 2 intel based PCs in the past that were identical in every way, down to the loaded software, yet both performed and behaved slightly different. in the end, it is all about trial and error. once you have it working properly, keep it that way, and dont ponder the idea of installing other resource sharing devices or software, because then all bets are off. you are then teching and troubleshooting a whole new beast. good luck with getting your PT system up and running. id like to know just how long youve been sweating this issue before you decided to post it, and then up till you resolve it, and what you had to do to get it right.

[CJMD]

OK! I disabled the internet connection, again, and now Pro Tools semi-improved performance is back. I could swear this computer is toying with me.

i dont have an explanation for the symptoms you are going through, and i cant tell you what will work... however, after that many uninstalls and reinstalls of software, and still having problems like this, i would start to suspect there may be a registry problem. check your hardware/device manager and see if theres any issues there. if not, i would gather up all your windows, system, and hardware drivers into a neat pile of cds, and start contemplating the idea of completely starting from scratch - reformatting the (c:) OS harddrive, reinstalling windows, loading device drivers, then onto protools. try something like installing the microsoft hotfix 'before' protools. get windows set up and configured first before introducing the PT software.

Normally, that would be a good idea, but I don't know what that would do to Acronis TrueImage. I'll wait and see how the different FW bus affects things. If that fixes it, I might use Acronis to restore factory setting, and begin a clean install, but I'm thinking I might just avoid that like the plague, after all the other issues I've had. If this thing finally starts working, a don't-touch-anything policy will be in order.

I sent MusicXPC an email regarding the strangely incompatible FW ports on a supposedly compatible laptop. Best case scenario, that I can think of: They send me a compatible card bus, free. I noticed that the M4 package on their website and elsewhere is listed as coming with a 3-port firewire cardbus. Mine is a 2-port. It also looks different. Besides the extra port, MusicXPC may have made this change specifically because of the host controller issue, and I would imagine that they would have given some sort of compensation to the customers who already experienced this issue.