Are Busses at the App or Session level?

[O.G. Killa]

Originally Posted by b1daly

I, for one, find this subject fascinating if you feel like sharing:)

Sure... Here's what I do. This is my Stereo Mix IO layout for the most part. It changes a little bit from one project to the next but this is the bulk of it. All of these busses are stereo. Some of the stereos I use mono subpaths for mono sends too. I'll note those by using a "-" in front of the name and they are linked to the stereo path directly above it. I'll also use "//" to signify a comment line to help explain what you are looking at...


//Analog monitor outputs to speakers
Analog 1-2 -> 1-2 Out

//Track Busses
Kik FX
-Kik Compressor
-Kik Verb
Snr FX
-Snr Compressor
-Snr Verb
Gate Triggers
-Kik Gate Trigger
-Snr Gate Trigger
OH Compressor
Tom Compressor
Tom Verb
Room Compressor
Drumset Verb 1
Drumset Verb 2
Drumset Submix
Perc A FX
Perc B FX
Perc Submix
Bass FX
-Bass Amp
-Bass verb
GTR A FX
-GTR A Dly
-GTR A Verb
GTR B FX
-GTR B Dly
-GTR B Verb
GTR C FX
-GTR C Dly
-GTR C Verb
GTR D FX
-GTR D Dly
-GTR D Verb
GTR E FX
-GTR E Dly
-GTR E Verb
Keys/Synth A FX
Keys/Synth B FX
Keys/Synth C FX
Keys/Synth D FX
Keys/Synth E FX
Strings A FX
Strings A Verb
Strings A Submix
Strings B FX
Strings B Verb
Strings B Submix
Strings C FX
Strings C Verb
Strings C Submix
Strings D FX
Strings E FX
Brass A FX
Brass A Verb
Brass A Submix
Brass B FX
Brass B Verb
Brass B Submix
Brass C FX
Brass C Verb
Brass C Submix
Brass D FX
Brass E FX
WoodWinds A FX
WoodWinds A Verb
WoodWinds A Submix
WoodWinds B FX
WoodWinds B Verb
WoodWinds B Submix
Lead Vox A FX1
-Lead Vox A Dly1
-Lead Vox A Dly2
Lead Vox A FX 2
-Lead Vox A Verb1
-Lead Vox A Verb2
Lead Vox B FX1
-Lead Vox B Dly1
-Lead Vox B Dly2
Lead Vox B FX 2
-Lead Vox B Verb1
-Lead Vox B Verb2
Lead Vox Submix
-Lead Vox A Submix
-Lead Vox B Submix
BG Vox A FX
BG Vox A Submix
BG Vox B FX
BG Vox B Submix
Ad Lib Vox FX1
-Ad Lib Vox Dly1
-Ad Lib Vox Dly2
Ad Lib Vox FX 2
-Ad Lib Vox Verb1
-Ad Lib Vox Verb2
SFX FX

//Stem Busses
Drum Stem A
Drum Stem B
Perc Stem A
Perc Stem B
Perc Stem C
Bass Synth Stem
Bass Gtr Stem
GTR A Stem
GTR B Stem
GTR C Stem
GTR D Stem
GTR E Stem
Keys/Synth A Stem
Keys/Synth B Stem
Keys/Synth C Stem
Keys/Synth D Stem
Keys/Synth E Stem
Strings A Stem
Strings B Stem
Strings C Stem
Strings D Stem
Strings E Stem
Brass A Stem
Brass B Stem
Brass C Stem
Brass D Stem
Brass E Stem
WW A Stem
WW B Stem
WW C Stem
Lead Vox A Stem
Lead Vox B Stem
BG Vox A Stem
BG Vox B Stem
Ad Lib Vox Stem
Sound Design Stem
SFX Stem

//Mix Busses
MIX1
MIX2
MIX3
MIX4
MIX5
MIX6


So the way I set this all up... the track busses are used in conjunction with the tracks for the mix... I'm using generic names in the IO setup so it stays flexible from one project to the next. For one project Drumset A might be live drumset, Drumset B might be electronic drumset loops, on another project Drumset A might be live drumset, and drumset B might be live drumset Toms overdubs. GTR A might be Acoustic GTR for one project and GTR B might be Power Chord/Rhythm GTR stuff.... on another project GTR A might be Power Chords... and so on...

Each group of tracks then gets their outputs bussed to their corresponding stem bus (All the drumset mics and auxes go to Drumset A Stem). There is an audio track for each stem bus, with it's input set to the stem bus. There is also an audio track for each Mix bus. The stem tracks are then all assigned to Output->Mix1 which I use as my main mix... and then I multi-output the other stem tracks to the other Mix tracks depending on what is needed.

So sometimes Mix 2 might be No Choir or No Vocals, Mix 3 might be no orchestra, Mix 4 might be Perc and Sound Design Only, and so on. Other times Mix 2 might be No Drums, Mix 3 might be No Background Vocals, and so on. Whatever is needed by the client.

The Stem tracks and Mix tracks are always set to input Monitor and are all solo safe'd. as I mix the audio tracks, I'm monitoring through the stem tracks and mix1 track simultaneously. Once I finish the mix, I can record enable all of the stem tracks and all of the mix tracks together and hit record and print all the stems and mixes in one real-time pass.

I should also point out that I might not use all of these busses on every mix. If I'm doing a rock power trio then obviously I don't use the brass, strings, woodwinds, etc. But I have them all there and available. I also have templates setup for various types of mixing I do a lot of... so I have a trailer template that has auxes setup for perc verbs and string verbs and so on that I like to use for trailer cues... I have another template for a rock mix, another for a classical orchestra mix, another for Jazz combo, etc...

When I'm mixing I can pull from these templates instead of having to setup the tracks, the plugins, the settings and the bussing every time. Makes the mixing process move quicker.

Anyway... sorry to bore people but maybe some people find this useful for what they do in their workflow.

Enjoy!

[b1daly]

Thanks Derek, that is very interesting.

If I'm following correctly, your stem tracks are always audio tracks, on input monitor?

I've made attempts to do similar kind of templates and have felt like it wound up being more trouble than it's worth because I had to change things on the fly.

I can see how your system could be more flexible, as you forgo trying to setup a specific template for your recorded tracks, but have a template for your busses/fx that has enough flexibility to handle a lot of different projects.

I've tried do things like have the template specified down to individual tracks, so kick, snr, toms, OHs, and inevitably my current project would have some variation not planned for (like the drummer has a whole kit made out of percussion instruments:)

It's a great example of how a DAW is really a general tool, enable a huge variety of workflows.

I usually resort to importing my aux tracks and effects from other projects to save time.

For fx tracks, I just leave the default bus numbers and name my tracks "fx" followed by the generic bus label. I generally start my standard fx using bus 11-14 for general verbs (for some reason I usually just do mono sends to verbs, probably old habit of saving voices on an HD system), then delays busses 15-30, and other fx above that.

So the tracks are named things like "fx11" or "fx31 32" for a stereo bus. This makes it easy to see the track names and associate with sends on a small mixer view.

for instrument sub-mixes I'll either use the stereo busses 1-10, or alternately select all the drum tracks (or guitar tracks, whatever), then option-shift "new track" and name it "drumz", and then color it yellow. So my submix tracks are all yellow and end with "z" and dumping to the main mix bus.

I don't do stems a lot, but when I do lately, I set up busses for each stem I want, then instantiate post fade sends to those busses on the submix tracks for offline bounce.

But man, I do feel like I'm re-inventing the mixer on every frickin' session, you've shared some cool ideas that I think can help.

Thanks!

[mesaone]

Originally Posted by deanrichard

As I understand it, now that PT is floating point, none of the internal audio should clip. Only at the output when sent to the D/A converter. Am I misunderstanding that?

This is my understanding, as well. I have successfully used Blue Cat Gain Suite to boost tone from -20 to +300 dBFS on a track, then bring it down to -20 dBFS again on the master fader. No distortion, no clipping.

[midnightrambler]

Originally Posted by mesaone

This is my understanding, as well. I have successfully used Blue Cat Gain Suite to boost tone from -20 to +300 dBFS on a track, then bring it down to -20 dBFS again on the master fader. No distortion, no clipping.

I love the fact you took the time to do that :)

[midnightrambler]

Originally Posted by b1daly

(for some reason I usually just do mono sends to verbs, probably old habit of saving voices on an HD system)

Yes it took me quite a while to kick this habit as well, but now I quite enjoy the ability to pan the reverb send to a different spot to the clean signal. (Depends on the reverb of course - some of them sum the input to mono regardless, so can be a waste of time using stereo sends....)

[O.G. Killa]

Originally Posted by b1daly

Thanks Derek, that is very interesting.

If I'm following correctly, your stem tracks are always audio tracks, on input monitor?

I've made attempts to do similar kind of templates and have felt like it wound up being more trouble than it's worth because I had to change things on the fly.

I can see how your system could be more flexible, as you forgo trying to setup a specific template for your recorded tracks, but have a template for your busses/fx that has enough flexibility to handle a lot of different projects.

I've tried do things like have the template specified down to individual tracks, so kick, snr, toms, OHs, and inevitably my current project would have some variation not planned for (like the drummer has a whole kit made out of percussion instruments:)

It's a great example of how a DAW is really a general tool, enable a huge variety of workflows.

I usually resort to importing my aux tracks and effects from other projects to save time.

For fx tracks, I just leave the default bus numbers and name my tracks "fx" followed by the generic bus label. I generally start my standard fx using bus 11-14 for general verbs (for some reason I usually just do mono sends to verbs, probably old habit of saving voices on an HD system), then delays busses 15-30, and other fx above that.

So the tracks are named things like "fx11" or "fx31 32" for a stereo bus. This makes it easy to see the track names and associate with sends on a small mixer view.

for instrument sub-mixes I'll either use the stereo busses 1-10, or alternately select all the drum tracks (or guitar tracks, whatever), then option-shift "new track" and name it "drumz", and then color it yellow. So my submix tracks are all yellow and end with "z" and dumping to the main mix bus.

I don't do stems a lot, but when I do lately, I set up busses for each stem I want, then instantiate post fade sends to those busses on the submix tracks for offline bounce.

But man, I do feel like I'm re-inventing the mixer on every frickin' session, you've shared some cool ideas that I think can help.

Thanks!

Yeah, for the stems I want to make sure that what I'm hearing is what is being printed across the board. Sending the tracks directly to the stereo mix and then using sends to send to additional stem tracks that are muted means I could have an error in the stems and not know it. Then I'd have to listen to the stems after I print everything to make sure there are no errors. I know some guys who setup sends to additional tracks for stems. To me and how my brain works, this is much simpler. If there is a problem or error with one of the stems, I hear it since the stems themselves are feeding the stereo mix. I got this concept from mixing films and TV shows.