Handling of Audio Files when Recording

[trackone]

I am trying to understand the way Pro Tools handles audio files when recording and I can't find this in the manual. This is more under the hood of what is going on.

Say you have a mono audio track named Audio 1. Enable QuickPunch, record enable the track, hit 3 and start recording, say 4 measures. Hit the spacebar and stop. The audio files shows in Clips and in the Audio Files folder with the filename Audio 1_01. Hit Command Z to undo and the file will no longer show in Clips, but is is still in the Audio Files Folder named Audio 1_01. Record again, stop, Command Z. The file in the Audio Files folder will be Audio 1_02. Record again, but before hitting Command Z notice the new filename may still be named Audio 1_02. Again and it may increment to Audio 1_03, then Audio 1_04, and then be Audio 1_04 again. This is with Insertion Follows Playback off. Turn Insertion Follows Playback on and it always increments. I can't see why sometimes the filename remains the same.

Now delete and make sure all clips are off the track and are not in Clips. Save the file. Create a new session and import Session Data. Select the track you were just recording on in the last session. Start recording on that track. Notice the filename in Clips will not start with Audio 1_01, but with one of the filenames from the previous session such as Audio 1_05 or some incremental number from the previous session. I can't figure the pattern that Pro Tools is applying here as well. I assumed after Command Z it would always increment.

The reason I am asking this is that in a recent session we were cutting several background vocal tracks. After a take we decided to do a redo, so I hit Command Z as I was told we were not keeping the clips. This happened several times until we had a take we liked. The next day the question came up what if we wanted to listened to or use one of the previous clips where I hit Undo. I replied they should still be in the Audio Files folder and we could import the audio file. But based on the examples I explained earlier some files could be overwritten. I know I can use a Playlist, but the artist and others involved decided not to use a Playlist.

Can anyone shed any light on this or what am I missing with the way the audio files are named and handled?

[BScout]

Files aren't overwritten unless you use destructive record.

Pro Tools increments based on the pre-existing files located in the disk allocation for that track/session. If there already exists a file with a name, it increments from the last number it can use after the numbers already taken. If you reallocate the disk allocation for a track, you can start "re-using" numbers because it won't overwrite a file in the disk allocation path.

Hitting Cmd+. is the only way to completely remove something from existence if you hit it before stopping (not just undo from the edit window but like it never happened even on disk.)

If you think you have two files with the same name, right click on each of them in the clip bin and show it in the finder.

(and finally, clip names aren't necessarily file names and by default, the clip bin is showing the clip name not the file name)

[trackone]

Originally Posted by BScout

Files aren't overwritten unless you use destructive record.

Pro Tools increments based on the pre-existing files located in the disk allocation for that track/session. If there already exists a file with a name, it increments from the last number it can use after the numbers already taken. If you reallocate the disk allocation for a track, you can start "re-using" numbers because it won't overwrite a file in the disk allocation path.

Hitting Cmd+. is the only way to completely remove something from existence if you hit it before stopping (not just undo from the edit window but like it never happened even on disk.)

If you think you have two files with the same name, right click on each of them in the clip bin and show it in the finder.

(and finally, clip names aren't necessarily file names and by default, the clip bin is showing the clip name not the file name)

I understand this and I am not as concerned with what is showing in the clip list as what is in the Audio Files folder. When I tested this I had a file named Audio_4 and I did the Undo it was no longer in the Clip list but was still the Audio Files folder. When I engaged record again it came back on the track as the same name Audio 1_04 and overwrote the original Audio1_04 file in the Audio files folder. This was not using destructive record.

[BScout]

I’m assuming you have typos on the file name on the last post as you used 3 different names. Assuming you meant the same name each time, then you’ve found a bug and should report it to Avid through the ASC.

Also a second bug if you hit undo and the file name disappeared from the clip list. That should not happen. And does not happen here.

Could you post your system specs: operating system version and Pro Tools version?
Since you have two bugs that I haven’t seen (and others haven’t reported yet) you might want to trash your Pro Tools preferences and see if the problem solves itself.

[trackone]

You are correct, there were typos. It should have read Audio 1_04 for the file name in each instance. However, this was tested on a Windows 10 system with latest OS updates using PT 2019.5 at a studio I was working at. I also tested at home on my Mac Mini running Mojave using PT Ultimate 2019.5. The results were the same on both systems. I will try to trash preferences and if it persists I will report it. What really surprised me was when I imported session data was the naming behavior on the track that was imported. I caught this when I tested in a template that I used when I tested this.

[its2loud]

“Also a second bug if you hit undo and the file name disappeared from the clip list. That should not happen. And does not happen here. “


I do this all the time when recording sequential takes and accidentally record an unwanted take. Undo after transport stop while in record removes that particular clip from the list and reverts the numbering so I can continue with take numbers again so I don’t have to skip a number.

[JFreak]

How it should work, and I believe *is* working for you too as a bug here would be a showstopper, is this:

1) you record audio_01.wav
2) you hit undo
3) recorded audio is removed from the session and clip list, but the audio still remains in the audio files folder
4) you close session
5) undoed audio file is cleaned from the audio files folder

If you record again before closing the session and thus automatically removing audio_01.wav, PT will re-use that same file because it is undoed and declared unnecessary. So no file number gaps for recording like this.

Now if there is something else going on, say you need to force quit PT after undoing, the undoed file is still there in the file system and force quitting your session does not do the automatic cleanup. So next time you open your session, the audio_01.wav is in your audio files folder (assuming you didn't do manual cleanup) and the next time you record you would get a _02 clip because _01 is already taken.

Why? Someone is already asking why does PT work like this, why not just undo the file from the file system when you hit undo. Well.. the answer is.. you might also sometimes want to undo the undo

[trackone]

Originally Posted by JFreak

How it should work, and I believe *is* working for you too as a bug here would be a showstopper, is this:

1) you record audio_01.wav
2) you hit undo
3) recorded audio is removed from the session and clip list, but the audio still remains in the audio files folder
4) you close session
5) undoed audio file is cleaned from the audio files folder

I did another test. I created a new session with one audio track.

Recorded take 1 and it was named Audio1_01.
Hit Undo. Clip was no longer on the track or in the Clips list. Audio1_01 was in the Audio files folder.

Recorded take 2 and it was named Audio1_01.
Hit Undo. Clip was no longer on the track or in the Clips list. Audio1_01 was in the Audio files folder.

Recorded take 3 and it was named Audio1_01.
Hit Undo. Clip was no longer on the track or in the Clip list. Audio1_01 was in the Audio files folder.

At this point there was no clips on the track or in the Clips list. Hit save and closed the session. Quit Pro tools. In the audio files folder was Audio1_01. The last take I recorded. So the file was not cleared from the audio folder per your step 5.

I am thinking this is a bug and should recommend using Playlists if they think may may want to listen to a previous take.

[JFreak]

Contact Avid Support and give them all relevant info about your system. As I said, undoed file should be cleared when you close the session properly. Something in your system is preventing this and I have no clue why.

[trackone]

Jfreak and BScout, thanks for the help. I followed BScout's suggestion about trashing the preferences. Trashing the preferences did the trick. After that it worked exactly as the 5 steps in your post JFreak. However, since I only had one audio track in the session it also deleted any unused folders in the session folder. Any time I reopened the session it started back at Audio1_01 as it should.

One last thing about this to be aware of. I imported session data from a session before I the prefs were trashed and those filenames were being named correctly. I imported session data of the track from a session after I trashed and those files were correctly named.