Neve Consoles

[MarkH]

Recently I've been reading quite a few interviews where artists, mostly remixers and electronic groups, are using TDM for the entire song writing process and then when all songs have been finished, they go off to a bigger studio with a producer and engineer and the word "Neve" comes up. I know these consoles are supposed to really nice, but how do most studios incorporate this into their TDM setup? Do they route the Digi audio into the Neve, then record back into Pro Tools on new tracks? Neve seems like a standard choice for recording vocals in big studios. Does it somehow warm up the audio coming out of Pro Tools as well?

The last two issues of Remix Magazine featured interviews with Beastie Boys and Liam Howlett (Prodigy), and I also read and interview with Massive Attack, and in all three instances the artists did all their song writing in Pro Tools (sometimes using Reason rewired) then "moved to another studio where they had a Neve console" but rarely does the article ever expand beyond what the artist and engineer do with the Neve, probably because the magazine caters to what people have accessible to them, and Neve isn't typically one of them.

Don't know if anyone here has the experience or knowledge to expand on this, but I would find an interesting read if someone can elaborate.

Regards,
MarkH

[O.G. Killa]

I know these consoles are supposed to really nice, but how do most studios incorporate this into their TDM setup?

most studios use protools like a 2", 24-track tape machine. On larger consoles (and also on some smaller ones) you have tape sends and returns as well as mic/line inputs and outputs. The tape sends and returns are connected to the Protools I/Os just like a tape machine would be connected (Channel 1 goes to the first input and output on your 192, Channel 2 goes to to the second input output pair on the 192, etc...)

Also, don't be fooled into thinking, "Just because it's a Neve it must be nice!" If the console isn't cared for it will be a horrible experience to work on it. On all analog consoles things wear out and sometimes break. Things like mute and solo switches, bus assignment switches, EQ in/out switches, patchbay connectors, etc... If the console isn't taken care of then you will have a very hard time doing anything productive on it. Also not all Neve consoles are the same. The ones with the highest acclaim are the "80" series. You'll see them mentioned as "8078" or the like. The 80 series has several different mic preamp/eqs used in them but most people agree that they sound great. The Mic Preamp/EQs in these consoles were the 1073s, 1081s, 1066s, 1093s, etc... There are a few different model numbers but those are usually the most common. Depending on what year the console was made and when it was modified (if at all) the mic preamp model numbers will vary a little.

Neve has come out with other consoles like the V series and the VR series and they have a new one out now called 88RS. For more info on Neve consoles go to AMS Neve Website. Not all Neve consoles are alike too...I know the Neve V series had a lot of heat problems and would be constantly breaking down. It gets so hot that if you put your hand over the channels, you can feel the heat rising off it! We used to have one at the studio I work at (before I started working here) and the chief engineer decided to get rid of it because he had to keep fixing it every few days. But anyway...

Do they route the Digi audio into the Neve, then record back into Pro Tools on new tracks? Neve seems like a standard choice for recording vocals in big studios.

I kind of answered this a little bit up above...but to elaborate on how it's usually mixed down...the skies the limit. Some people will mix through the console to 1/2" tape...some to a Masterlink...some to a DAT tape...some will mix back in to protools. It all varies and is really up to the producer and engineer.

Does it somehow warm up the audio coming out of Pro Tools as well?

Some people will say it warms up the sound, others will say that it fattens the sound, and even a few people will say that it makes the sound muddy and noisy. Personally, I will say that it "Colors" the sound. It's hard to really describe until you've worked with one and see how it sounds. Neve, SSL, API, Trident, CalRec, etc...all have a different character to their sound. People that usually like the API and Neve gear will say that an SSL sounds too sterile...and conversely people who favor the sound of SSL might say that Neve sounds noisy and muddy.

Honestly it's like any other tool in a recording studio...there is a time and a place for everything. If I'm doing hiphop or orchestral recording I might choose a newer SSL console. If I'm recording a rock band I might opt for an Old Neve. You really just need to hear for yourself the difference. See if there are any studios in your area with a Neve console...Call 'em up and see if you could rent the studio for a day...just go in and play around and listen to the sounds your getting...in the end you'll realize it works great for somethings, and not so great for others. But that's why we have external hardware and that's why studios have different rooms with different consoles.

Just as a final disclaimer, I am by no means an authority on Neve consoles. I'm sure there are others on the DUC that have been using them for decades and can give you even more insite than me. Everyone please feel free to add to this post and/or correct me if I made any errors.

[MarkH]

Thanks Killa, that was a good explanation.

[mike16877]

Recently I've been reading quite a few interviews where artists, mostly remixers and electronic groups, are using TDM for the entire song writing process and then when all songs have been finished, they go off to a bigger studio with a producer and engineer and the word "Neve" comes up. I know these consoles are supposed to really nice, but how do most studios incorporate this into their TDM setup? Do they route the Digi audio into the Neve, then record back into Pro Tools on new tracks? Neve seems like a standard choice for recording vocals in big studios. Does it somehow warm up the audio coming out of Pro Tools as well?

The last two issues of Remix Magazine featured interviews with Beastie Boys and Liam Howlett (Prodigy), and I also read and interview with Massive Attack, and in all three instances the artists did all their song writing in Pro Tools (sometimes using Reason rewired) then "moved to another studio where they had a Neve console" but rarely does the article ever expand beyond what the artist and engineer do with the Neve, probably because the magazine caters to what people have accessible to them, and Neve isn't typically one of them.

Don't know if anyone here has the experience or knowledge to expand on this, but I would find an interesting read if someone can elaborate.

Regards,
MarkH

Its not just large facilities using SSL's and Neves, many a project studio or simply home hobbyist use TDM system. Theres a strange thing that happens when a newcomer arrives in Digiland. They pay a lot of money for their system in the belief that they have all the need to do it in the box and soon realize they dont dont get the sound they are looking for. Hence the arrival of stuff like the dangerous 2 buss and the many smallframe front end analog consoles out there that are built with Pro Tools in mind (The new speck for eg).

I say this with full conviction that Pt''s summing is the coldest and clinical sounding of them all. I dont know why?Maybe its TDM?. Take the Sony Oxford plugin for example. Yep, I bought the thing and tried to convince myself it was good. NO, its thin and nasty. Then I get the FX xpansion VSt wrapper and boy oh boy have my eyes been opened. Never again will I spend $700 on an eq plugin when many of those VST ones at a 3rd of the price sound just as good or dare I say it Better. Many of those VST plugs have character while most Pro Tools plugins have zero character. but what they do have is a lovely overinflated price tag.

I will never understand to this day why so many believed the Bomb factory plugins to be so good. Again, I tried to convince myself that they were cool and there must be something wrong with me. Nope, they are crap. Even my fairly crap RNC blows them away. I was one of the unlucky ones that bought those BF plugs. I think Digi eventually gave them away for free?

Delays. try and get a good TDM one. Having difficulty? I did, until I got the FX xpansion wrapper and all those wonderful and full of character VST's were available to me. The OHM boys stuff simply blows away any TDM delay I can think of. The really funny part is that I use some free VSt plugs that actually are good. (Blockfish, Spitfish)

If your doing bland characterless music Pro tools will happily mix if for you. If you want something less tinny with character then you will need to start forking out for a console, outboard, and a lot of other stuff. Its as simple as that.

In saying that there are a few guys out there that can get great results mixing entirely within tools. This is the exception not the rule.

Peace