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Old 07-09-2004, 01:34 PM
AdamF AdamF is offline
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 305
Default Mix system now??

Hey guys,

If you had an 001 (which will be stuck soon at 6.4 and on G4) would you consider a mix plus system an option with it being so cheap (and somewhat in my personal budget in my home studio)?? I was thinking of going to a 002R but I havent been too happy with stability in PT 6.x LE. Didn't know how green the grass was on the TDM side of the fence in 6.x. I get so many unexepected quits I just call them expected at this point. I was about to go to logic cause i've just gotten frustrated. I can't afford a HD system but was wondering if you pro's think its a bad move to get into a now defunct mix plus system or go with 002R and a G5 in the near future..... I run a lot of plugins and verbs and stuff so CPU usage is my biggest issue, how much I can get out of the system..

Thanks for any advice.. i've always been too nervous to post over here in pro-land
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Old 07-09-2004, 05:01 PM
Drew Drew is offline
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 71
Default Re: Mix system now??

I can't speak of the stability or performance of an LE system because I've never used one, but a month ago I was confronted with the decision of going up to HD from Mix. I decided to stick with my mix system for a number of reasons, the first being cost - there were just too many to deal with all at once, so I'm going to squeeze another year or two out of my current setup (MixPlus). I have over the last month decided that I would try to make the jump to using OSX (mainly to be able to use Rewire), even that requires a fairly serious investment because of the sudden obsolescence of various pieces of gear (fuse card, plug-ins needing to be updated, no OMS so I had to buy a USD, and a new computer (dual G4 1.25 gHz) because of the higher overhead required by OSX, blah, blah, blah. But, at least I will be closer when the time comes for me to make the leap to HD.

So, would I buy a 002 instead of used Mix system? I think it depends on what you're going to be doing - if you're doing music, I would be inclined to go with the LE system (granted, I've never used one) because the software will continue to grow - Mix users get one more upgrade 6.4.1 and that's it. For post, you want TDM - it's solid and it works. I know a few people who are "downgrading" from mix to an 002 simply because it's cheaper and with G5's - there's a ton of power for plug-ins.

If you are constantly running out of processing, I would go with TDM but you will need a fast computer if you want to use OSX and that might just be the straw. I for one think there's life left with a mix system, but if you're the kind of person who needs the latest and greatest, you may feel left in the dust when new software features aren't available for you because you have an "unsupported" mix system.

I work in Post, and I can't remember the last time my computer crashed, or when I've run out of processing power. Mind you, I only work with around 15-20 tracks and have fairly modest needs.

It's a hard decision, because somehow, you will always feel like you've either made the wrong choice, spent too much money or both!! Enjoy.
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Old 07-09-2004, 05:31 PM
mpark9000 mpark9000 is offline
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 290
Default Re: Mix system now??

RTAS plugs in a modern computer may exceed the DSP power of an older TDM system. Also, there's some TDM things, such as plug placement, not being able to use RTAS on an aux track, etc. that makes an LE system fairly appealing. OTOH, a Mix system will still sound great and may have better timing than an LE system (especially plugins).

I would personally go for the TDM system, but there's a compelling argument for the LE system. I have TDM on a OS9 Mac G4, LE on a Win XP PC, and Logic and PTLE on an OSX G5. Out of all of them, LE in OSX is the least stable (thats why I use Logic).
"They may call it walking in Texas, but in California we call it just being a jerk"
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Old 07-09-2004, 10:59 PM
jpd52 jpd52 is offline
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 168
Default Re: Mix system now??

I am not going to go into the many discussion of Mix Plus vs. HD, but I can tell you, I just went to a refurbished Mix Plus from Digi. I run the Apogee Rosetta 800 with the Apogee Mix Card, bypassing Digi's front end. It sounds simply stellar, and it is rock solid OS 9 and OS10. There is no one who can tell me HD is essential after hearing what's coming out of this setup. If you can do a Mix Plus setup like this and run LE on your laptop , you will be very happy and very productive.

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Old 07-10-2004, 04:06 AM
thin ice thin ice is offline
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Surrey
Posts: 651
Default Re: Mix system now??

I'm more than happy with my Mix3 now that I have a Rosetta 800 and a Big Ben. Quality's great and TDM was essential for Beat Detective etc.
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Old 07-10-2004, 04:31 AM
georgia georgia is offline
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: NY,NY
Posts: 1,859
Default Re: Mix system now??

When.... and only, when, a client walks in the door, waves a check, and says " I want this project in 96Khz or 192 Khz" , will I update to HD.

sometimes Digidesign reminds me of our illustrious president.... scare everyone into the "correct" mindset.
buy,buy,buy in the case of digidesign....

more and more i think we're being sucked into upgrades and new toys just 'cause the corporations need to get 1 more Dollar, when in reality what we're using is just fine... Look at it for a minute

music: screw DVD and the newer higher sample rates, the average and vast majority of consumers have voted with their pocket book and are listenening to MP3....
post: still 48khz 16 bit for dolby digital and DTS so between these just exactly why again, did you just spend $20,000 or $30,000 for that super high end 192 Khz loaded with bells ande whistles HD rig when the same thing could have been accomplished with your existing equipment?

when business requirements and/or your gear simply can't do it anymore... then is the time to fix or replace..not 'cause digi has great marketing....

oh yeah, while i'm ranting... just how the heck is this zillion dollar uber mouse gonna make my music or film SOUND better? - oh yeah, it is a great producer catcher... i'll grant you that.. losts of lights and knobs...



ps: Sorry Digi guys... I still Love you.
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Old 07-10-2004, 07:52 AM
mike connelly mike connelly is offline
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: chicago
Posts: 1,317
Default Re: Mix system now??

I'd get a G5, Logic (or DP) and third party hardware (probably MOTU).
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Old 07-10-2004, 10:17 AM
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DigiTechSupt DigiTechSupt is offline
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Location: Worldwide
Posts: 33,752
Default Re: Mix system now??

Just giving the view from the other side...

>more and more i think we're being sucked into upgrades and new toys just 'cause the corporations need to get 1 more Dollar, when in reality what we're using is just fine... Look at it for a minute

Actually, new hardware and software features are driven by customer/industry demand. Not sure if you recall, this User Conference prior to HD's release two years ago. One of the largest topics of discussion was the need for higher sample rates and higher track counts and how Digidesign sucked because we didn't have it. HD is an answer to that customer demand.

It is true that a Mix system is still (and will always be) a great system and more than adequate for many people (consider how many records, TV shows and Films were done on Mix hardware), there is still an even larger number of people that need higher sample rates, higher track counts, more plugins, better sound quality, more plugin options. etc. HD is for them.

Regardless of HD, as many of you have stated here, the Mix system is perfect for you. However, if and when you need something more, there is Pro Tools HD Accel.

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Old 07-10-2004, 03:09 PM
mpark9000 mpark9000 is offline
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 290
Default Re: Mix system now??

I agree. The future is HD and beyond. G5s don't run Mix systems, and neither will a G6, G7, G8, etc. G5 processors are a huge leap from a G4 when running optimized software. Higher sampling rates will eventually make their way in to the consumer end of things, but they aren't here yet. So in the interim, a used Mix system is still plenty useful. That said, given a choice I'd take an HD system (in fact I'm going to be doing that very soon). It has more DSP power, if nothing else.

I still have an original Mac IIcx and Nubus Sound Tools system in my basement. It still works, 16 bit at 44.1 and has S/DIF and AES digital i/o. I should be able to still use it for projects, but I don't. It's too old and slow. The response of the system would drive me insane and all the loops I'd have to jump through to get my work done would eventually kill me. The specs are there, but there's more to work flow than specs.

I think the OP is saying he doesn't have the $20k for an HD system, so he's wondering if a modern LE system makes more sense than an older used TDM system.
"They may call it walking in Texas, but in California we call it just being a jerk"
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Old 07-10-2004, 06:00 PM
Kenny Gioia Kenny Gioia is offline
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: New York, NY USA
Posts: 3,003
Default Re: Mix system now??

Digi is right on this one. This place was filled with people complaining about no high resolution. Meanwhile most of the world is still using 44.1kHz.

I still think a Mix system is a great value. I would definitely get a used mix system before getting a Digi 002. I hate native (running on CPU) programs. Mix systems are still solid especially for home studios.

I just upgraded to Accel HD last week as it just made sense for the upgrade price. Plus I make real money with my system and can justify the cost.

BTW I am selling my mix plus g4 turnkey system if you are interested.
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