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  #21  
Old 06-24-2019, 03:03 PM
ZEUSS ZEUSS is online now
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Default Re: Antelope 32 HD delay compensation issues [SOLVED]

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Originally Posted by BScout View Post
All our interfaces are externally clocked. For all our systems. And we do not have problems at all.

We don't use loop sync at all (and if you use an external clock, you should not have the loop sync bnc connectors also connected; that confuses Pro Tools.)

You have to set external clock per device from the Session setup window. (Yes, stupid, but true. Flip through each device and then go back to whatever you want to signify as the "loop master" as the last device to set clocking even if you aren't using it as a "loop master.")

Interesting thing, on Avid interfaces' word clock and loop sync, it is unbuffered from in to out. With loop sync always working at Fs (vs 2Fs or 4Fs even if that is your session sample rate is a 2Fs or 4Fs rate.) Word clock input/output does stay at the actual Fs. However, the MTRX does not do this as it is not an actual true Avid interface. It is buffered. It also always operates on its internal clock -- only "referencing" external clock input if set to use word clock input. For that reason, all our systems with MTRX units use the MTRX as the master clock (referencing Pro Tools so it will follow the session sample rate) and one MTRX in a system will send its external WC to a WC distributor(s) that then sends to the other Avid or non-Avid hardware (including the SyncHD) in a star configuration.

Also make sure 75ohm termination is set up correctly depending on what the end points of your word clock chain are. For instance, the Sync HD is not terminated and a terminator should be placed on the WC out if you are sending a WC in from an external clock. You kind of have to go through all the hardware connected to find out what they do unless they are very clear about it (like RME is with the blue button/yellow led for termination.) And at worse, you put a T connector on a WC in and terminate the other side of the T.
First off, thanks for the very detailed explanation! I didn't even know that you could adjust the clocking with audio media setup! Protools can't be active or it won't show it. It was definitely set to something weird. I changed it to HD I|O #1 Internal. So that is fixed and set!

I also went through the list and selected WC for all the other interfaces and then ended with selecting the first unit (Red Line16) as "Loop Master" Exactly how it was before.

All termination is correct and I have it setup just like you do. Red sending clock to BB which distributes to the 3 other units. The BB has the termination port LED lights also indicating proper termination.

I have 4 very basic test sessions at 4 sample rates. 44.1/48,88.2/96K with a test tone output to the various interface and an audio file set to output to main outs.

I can easily start with 44.1 then shutdown the session. Then go to the 48K Session and open it. Then go back to 44.1 and it works. As soon as I go back to 48K protools swods and hangs but all the interfaces are clocked and locked. It will then stop swodding but then everything is unresponsive and I have to force quit and restart.Its something in the software somewhere. Maybe the driver?

I can't figure it out. There are times where I can open sessions with different rates 4 times in a row but beyond that it gets confused some how. I am on 10.12.6 Sierra. Could it be that? I have done all the trashing and other basic troubleshooting. Only other thing is to maybe move the order of the interfaces but I think the Red should be master in port 1. The last bit of info is I am only using the first DIGILINK out of the Red as I don't need the DANTE ins and outs. Any Ideas?
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  #22  
Old 06-24-2019, 03:41 PM
BScout BScout is offline
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Default Re: Antelope 32 HD delay compensation issues [SOLVED]

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Originally Posted by ZEUSS View Post
I can easily start with 44.1 then shutdown the session. Then go to the 48K Session and open it. Then go back to 44.1 and it works. As soon as I go back to 48K protools swods and hangs but all the interfaces are clocked and locked. It will then stop swodding but then everything is unresponsive and I have to force quit and restart.Its something in the software somewhere. Maybe the driver?
There's a weird thing... sometimes the playback engine changes faster than the hardware reclocks. The problem with hardware reclocking is if it gets caught in this cycle, the hardware appears to disappear from Pro Tools (in a similar manner that Pro Tools has to restart if you change the playback engine) before reappearing at the new sample rate. (If you think about it with 2FS and 4FS sessions, where the i/o count will change with sample rate changes on digital inputs/outputs, this makes sense from a design point of view.)

It happens occasionally only because Pro Tools only gets caught with its pants down trying to find the hardware when the hardware isn't ready yet only sometimes. It doesn't really matter where the RedLine is -- if it disappears when it changes clocks, then the hardware has changed as seen by Pro Tools and Pro Tools will have an issue.

This happens with the MTRX too but it does it more gracefully than the SWOD and you can just try reopening right away and it will work the second time. Once upon a time in 2017, the Pro Tools software change over and read of the hardware didn't have a mismatch of cycles and it never happened. Then the HDX driver changed or something in I/O or Playback Engine design in Pro Tools software and it's happened ever since occasionally.

The only thing, is once Pro Tools is open, switching to sessions with different sample rates doesn't have an issue with the MTRX. It only happens if the last session that was open when Pro Tools was closed is not the same sample rate as the first session opened when Pro Tools is reopened. But I imagine the RedLine might be a little slower than the MTRX in doing sample rate change overs for how it presents itself to the digilink connector and so gets caught out more frequently.
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  #23  
Old 06-24-2019, 04:27 PM
ZEUSS ZEUSS is online now
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 541
Default Re: Antelope 32 HD delay compensation issues [SOLVED]

Quote:
Originally Posted by BScout View Post
There's a weird thing... sometimes the playback engine changes faster than the hardware reclocks. The problem with hardware reclocking is if it gets caught in this cycle, the hardware appears to disappear from Pro Tools (in a similar manner that Pro Tools has to restart if you change the playback engine) before reappearing at the new sample rate. (If you think about it with 2FS and 4FS sessions, where the i/o count will change with sample rate changes on digital inputs/outputs, this makes sense from a design point of view.)

It happens occasionally only because Pro Tools only gets caught with its pants down trying to find the hardware when the hardware isn't ready yet only sometimes. It doesn't really matter where the RedLine is -- if it disappears when it changes clocks, then the hardware has changed as seen by Pro Tools and Pro Tools will have an issue.

This happens with the MTRX too but it does it more gracefully than the SWOD and you can just try reopening right away and it will work the second time. Once upon a time in 2017, the Pro Tools software change over and read of the hardware didn't have a mismatch of cycles and it never happened. Then the HDX driver changed or something in I/O or Playback Engine design in Pro Tools software and it's happened ever since occasionally.

The only thing, is once Pro Tools is open, switching to sessions with different sample rates doesn't have an issue with the MTRX. It only happens if the last session that was open when Pro Tools was closed is not the same sample rate as the first session opened when Pro Tools is reopened. But I imagine the RedLine might be a little slower than the MTRX in doing sample rate change overs for how it presents itself to the digilink connector and so gets caught out more frequently.
You are describing it exactly!! I guess I will just have to deal with it. And restart if it gets stuck. Thanks for all your help! Maybe Avid will read this and figure something out with the timing!
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